I've taken a close look at the German translation. It seems to be very solid, the translators have been doing a great job! I really like that articles and even plural forms have been considered and implemented correctly:
L spielt einen Gesandten.
P spielt eine Brücke.
P zieht ein Kupfer, ein Silber, ein Anwesen und 2 Blutzölle.
Really cool! :)
Nevertheless, I've found some small issues in the log:
QuoteEs ist deine Kaufphase, du darfst...
• Karten kaufe.
Should be "Karten kaufe
n"
QuoteTrete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.
Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."
QuoteBetween turns
Obviously, the translation is missing here.
QuoteP legt eine Beute zurück in dem Beute-Stapel.
Should be "P legt eine Beute zurück
in den Beute-Stapel." or "P legt eine Beute zurück
auf den Beute-Stapel."
QuoteDu nehmen eine Universität
und...
• darf Wachturm aufdecken zum Entsorgen.
• darf Wachturm aufdecken zum auf den Nachziehstapel legen.
Should be
Du
nimmst eine Universität
und...
•
darfst Wachturm aufdecken zum Entsorgen.
•
darfst Wachturm aufdecken zum auf den Nachziehstapel legen.
Horn Of Plenty:
QuoteNimm dir eine Karte, die bis zu 5 Geld kostet. Es eine Punktekarte ist, entsorge diese Karte.
Should be "Nimm dir eine Karte, die bis zu 5 Geld kostet.
Wenn es eine Punktekarte ist, entsorge diese Karte."
Adding to that, I think that "Quick Match" and "Good Match" are not translated well, as "Spiel" has match's meaning of "game" and not "pairing". I'd suggest "Schneller Gegner" and "Guter Gegner" or "Vergleichbarer Gegner". Then, at least it's as understandable as in English.
"Bot-Spiel" could stay as is.
QuoteP nimmt eine Gärten.
This is difficult, as "Gärten" is already the plural form of "Garten". I'd suggest omitting the article in this case:
"P nimmt Gärten."
At least on my system (Windows 8.1, Firefox) the German name of the event "Defiled Shrine" (Entweihter Schrein) is just a very little bit to long, such that the vertical stroke of the beginning "E" and the last vertical stroke of the ending "N" are not visible.
++++
The text for Defiled Shrine/Entweihter Schrein says in the setup part to put 2 VP on each "Nicht-Sammlung-Aktions-Vorratsstapel". In english that would be "Non-Gathering-Action-Supply pile". Please note that the original english version has this part as "non-Gathering Action Supply pile". The crucial difference is that the english version makes it clear that the "non" refers to the "Gathering" part only.
The german version could very easily be interpreted to have the "non" also apply to the Action attribute. What happened is that the German tendency to connect some words with hyphens has made the totally readable english version, which has only one hypen for clarity, into a not so clear german version with 3 hyphens.
The actual printed german card uses a clearer but longer wording that puts the negation in a separate clause. I would suggest the following
Spielvorbereitung: Lege 2SP auf jeden Aktions-Vorratsstapel ohne den Typ Sammmlung.
(Setup: Put 2VP on each action supply pile without the type Gathering.)
++++
All landmarks, when viewed, still show the text "Landmark" in the upper right, when it should be "Landmarke". The same for Event/Ereignis
QuoteF kauft und nimmt eine Köngigliche Münze.
Should be "
Königliche Münze"
QuoteP kauft und nimmt ein Weiser.
Should be "P kauft und nimmt
einen Weisen."
Rebuild:
QuoteNimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.
Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die
bis zu 8 Geld kostet."
Quote from: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 09:45:02 PM
Rebuild:
QuoteNimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.
Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld kostet."
No, the problem is that Rebuild wants a victory card that cost up to
3 more,
not up to 8 more.
++++
In addition, the same Problem as with Gardens/Gärten happens with Survivors/Überlebende. This word is already Plural, so omitting the article sounds like a good solution. It looks like this got flagged incorrectly as female ("R nimmt eine Überlebende"), which may be because "Überlebende" itself is the female version of a (single) survivor. But in this case it is supposed to refer to many survivors (as the English name says).
Thanks for the input and the commendation so far.
Quote
QuoteTrete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.
Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."
I kind of disagree here. Maybe the wording is a bit odd, but this refers to the progress of joining, so it's not technically wrong.
But maybe can have something nicer still.
Quote from: Ingix on 21 March 2017, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 09:45:02 PM
Rebuild:
QuoteNimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.
Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld kostet."
No, the problem is that Rebuild wants a victory card that cost up to 3 more, not up to 8 more.
Psyduck was right there. When Rebuild resolves, the client knows how much the trashed card costs, so there doesn't need to be a wording with "3 more", instead you're told how much the card your gaining may cost exactly.
I agree with anything else that was mentioned. The University/Watchtower thing was really entertaining ;). Many issues mentioned be fixed soon.
Quote from: assemble_me on 22 March 2017, 08:00:18 AM
Thanks for the input and the commendation so far.
Quote
QuoteTrete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.
Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."
I kind of disagree here. Maybe the wording is a bit odd, but this refers to the progress of joining, so it's not technically wrong.
But maybe can have something nicer still.
I can see your point here. I think it depends on which singular person is meant:
- 1 person (I): Ich trete
- 3. person (he/she/it): Er/sie/es tritt
For me, it's the 3. person, as the other log entries also refer to the 3. person (Player x buys/gains/trashes/...).
In general, I can only repeat that you've done a really good job with the translations!
Quote from: Psyduck on 22 March 2017, 12:39:22 PM
For me, it's the 3. person, as the other log entries also refer to the 3. person (Player x buys/gains/trashes/...).
In general, I can only repeat that you've done a really good job with the translations!
I still disagree about that one. It's not part of the game log, it doesn't appear there. I think, the client tells you what it's doing there. That's why it's 1st person to me. However, we don't really have to discuss about this further,
Yesterday, I already changed this to
"Du trittst Spiel #[num] auf [server] bei" ;)
Thanks again, lots of the credits go to drsteelhammer who translated a big chunk of the cards and the people who tested the German version, especially tufftaeh, who checked all our card translations and sent lots of remarks
QuoteP spielt einen Riese.
Should be "P spielt einen
Riesen."
QuoteDu start your turn und...
Should be "Du startest deinen Zug und..."
>I zieht eine Vogelfreie
This is Band of Misfits, so Vogelfreie is plural, not female, as the article suggests.
QuoteP spielt ein Handlanger.
Should be "P spielt
einen Handlanger."
QuoteP kauft eine Queste.
Should be "P kauft eine
Quest."
QuoteP spielt ein Lakai.
Should be "P spielt
einen Lakaien."
When getting the Wine Merchant back from the Tavern mat:
> Du END_OF_BUY_PHASE und...
-->
Du beendest die Kaufphase und...
"A spielt einen Brückentrolle."
QuoteWachturm hat den Anschluss an Fluch verloren (es wurde in einen anderen Bereich bewegt).
Should be "Wachturm hat den Anschluss an
den/einen Fluch verloren (
er wurde in einen anderen Bereich bewegt)." or something similar.
Not in the log, but since is the translation thread..
In the table configuration, the option to load an old game says:
QuoteAltes spiel laden
Should be "Altes
Spiel laden"
Not in the log, but as this is the translation thread:
Reveal area shows English card names (but German card texts).
(https://img3.picload.org/image/rlwllilr/unbenannt.png)
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".
"D erhält ein Flüchtling."
"D spielt ein Flüchtling."
Quote from: trazoM on 27 March 2017, 08:37:53 PM
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".
Nimm. Nimm (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Flexion:nehmen)!
Card text of Transformation, at the end:
... und dir eine Karte auf die Hand zu nehmen, die bis zu (1coin-symbol) mehr kostet.
The bold die is missing from the text.
"g legt eine Verrückten zurück in dem Verrückter-Stapel." Drei auf einen Streich...
Unfortunately, the pile thing will be a bit harder to fix. :(
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".
I kind of disagree with that one. The problem is "Nimm Kupfer" could suggest that you actually "gain" it. (That gain->nehmen translation of the original German translators is so terrible) Also the card text says that you reveal the copper and then put it into your hand, so I think "Decke Kupfer auf" is an all right compromise.
"Nimm Kupfer auf"?
"Kupfer auf die Hand"?
These buttons need to be wider... ;)
Quote from: Psyduck on 28 March 2017, 08:42:05 AM
Quote from: trazoM on 27 March 2017, 08:37:53 PM
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".
Nimm. Nimm (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Flexion:nehmen)!
Well, are all buttons imperative? I thought of it as a description what it do, so "Nehme Kupfer" would be appropriate. At least that is, what I tell real players if I do something.
Probably you are right.
"b wünscht sich Geschichtenerzähler und findet es."
At the end Screen, in the victory point detail list, for Wolf Den/Wolfsbau it gives me -6VP and says "genau ein ein Gold und ein Herzogtum" , where the last "ein" together with "Gold" is in a yellow color.
For Lord Rattington, it gives 0VP and says "genau ein nichts", which translates to "exactly one nothing". It's quite a bit of poetry, probably unintended.
"D trashes nothing" -> "D konnte nichts entsorgen" is not exactly correct (Bonfire)
Does the game know about different declensions needed for different purposes in German (and other languages as well)? In English, different forms are used for singular/plural, otherwise they are the same (my limited amount of English grammer may make me look like a fool now).
For example
"This is a wine merchant", "I talk to a wine merchant", "I play a Wine Merchant"
all use the same phrase in english: "a wine merchant". In German, these require different declensions, mostly recognizable in the form of "ein":
"Das ist ein Weinhändler" (Nominativ), "Ich rede mit einem Weinhändler" (Dativ), "Ich spiele einen Weinhändler" (Akkusativ).
Most actions in Dominion use the Akkusativ in German (play,draw,gain), and many of the corrections we see in this thread show this. But in a few cases the Nominativ must be used. In a recent game in the end screen there was a card listed in the detailed VP list as "einen Weinhändler" (which would be Akkusativ of Wine Merchant), when it should have been "ein Weinhändler" (Nominativ).
If the distinction between those cases (Nominativ/Akkusativ) is not made in the code, it will always be wrong one way or the other. Since most of the time Akkusativ is used, which in many case is the same as Nominativ, this doesn't show very often.
We're working on the different grammatical cases. These differences for the definite and indefinite articles don't appear in English (where it's just always "a" or "the") and apparently neither in Russian. This is something that is not simply fixed by translating the words, something about the ways some small localized text blocks are used needs to get adjusted for it to work.
Actually I have never seen any instance where we need the article for the nominative case (Nominativ), only dative (Dativ) and accusative (Akkusativ), where the last one is certainly most common.
Mostly we have stuff like Blabla spielt/kauft/nimmt ein Blubb .
The dative cases include entries where you put something on supply piles, or like VPs that are put on a Landmark. Usually constructions that look like . It usually involves that you put something from place A to place B.
Blabla legt 2 Siegpunkte von dem X-Stapel auf den Y-Stapel.
I happened to work around the first sentence that appears in the game where it says "Spieler beginnt mit..." by adding "folgenden Karten:" so I don't need the dative form for the articles of the cards there, but I didn't find a similar solution for the pile or event thing.
We never have nominative case since that would mean the card/event would be the subject which never happens in any occasion I've noticed. The subject, as far as I've seen, is always the player. We don't use genitive at all as far as I've seen.
Luckily, the only actual occasions where we need the article for the dative case is the one I said before, everywhere else it's accusative. That said, we only need to differ betweem "dem" and "den" because the articles always refer to a pile (Stapel). If I'm wrong about that, please let me know!
As said, we're already on it and hopefully many occasions are fixed with the next release(s).
Quote from: assemble_me on 31 March 2017, 07:56:19 AM
Actually I have never seen any instance where we need the article for the nominative case (Nominativ), only dative (Dativ) and accusative (Akkusativ), where the last one is certainly most common.
Mostly we have stuff like Blabla spielt/kauft/nimmt ein Blubb .
The dative cases include entries where you put something on supply piles like Embargo, or like VPs that are put on a Landmark. Usually constructions that look like
Blabla legt X auf den Y-Stapel.
I agree with almost everything that you said. However, the thing about dative strikes me odd. Maybe it's too early for me right now, but all your examples seem to be accusative instead of dative.
With Embargo, I place "einen Fluch-Marker" (wen oder was?).
With VP tokens, I also place some marker (wen oder was).
When "Blabla legt X auf den Y-Stapel. " the question is also (wen oder was legt X auf wen oder was?), so in my opinion both are accusative as well. With dative you'd be asking (wem?), which seems to be wrong.
I got it wrong when I explained it - it only occurs when you move stuff from (from and with are good indicator for "Dativ", apparently) to something I think. (I'm a very heavy post re-editor ;))
Quote from: assemble_me on 31 March 2017, 07:56:19 AM
We never have nominative case since that would mean the card/event would be the subject which never happens in any occasion I've noticed.
The problem I noticed was not in a log sentence but in the end game screen, where the VP details are shown. It was for some landmark that counted some cards, I forgot which one (Mea Culpa :-[), where I encounterd "einen Weinhändler", which, in that place, should have been nominative.
Quote from: assemble_me on 31 March 2017, 07:56:19 AM
As said, we're already on it and hopefully many occasions are fixed with the next release(s).
Again I'm impressed by the translation work. If there is anything I can do to help/assist, feel free ask!
Quote from: Ingix on 31 March 2017, 03:19:15 PM
The problem I noticed was not in a log sentence but in the end game screen, where the VP details are shown. It was for some landmark that counted some cards, I forgot which one (Mea Culpa :-[), where I encounterd "einen Weinhändler", which, in that place, should have been nominative.
It happens when you play Wolf Den / Wolfsbau... I now made this a complete sentence instead of just listing the cards...
The current release should solve all issues noted except for the Wolf Den one.
However, I think we fixed (hopefully all, at least most of) the "dem" vs "den" things, and even that:
(http://i.imgur.com/IbcIkbJ.png)
;)
Yay, I have named a button! :)
Yeah, great work. Thanks!
Here are two problems with Lurker.
In the log and the command box in the middle (which contains actions, buys etc.) Lurker is translated as Schleicher, while the card says Herumtreiberin.
In addition to that, when playing Lurker, the command box says "Wen du den Schleicher spielst", which should be "Wenn..." as it is in the log. To be honest, I'm not even sure if that sentence makes any sense here without the second one (from the log: "Du darfst eine Aktionskarte aus dem Vorrat entsorgen.").
Maybe take a look at all the cards that have card titles with plurals. At the moment I'm playing with Ratten/Rats and the log says "I nimmt eine Ratten" and the central info-panel (1 action, 1 buy...) says "Du nimmst eine Ratten".
Add: Even the on screen card text says "Nimm dir eine Ratten".
I tried to play in German (I am a native speaker), but I was so confused and had a hard time figuring out which cards were what. Obviously I am not able to fully understand the English names of the cards.
Anyway why are we using English in this thread? Seems to add some extra difficulty.
The main language of the forum is English. It could be considered rude to have a thread in German. Maybe it would be okay in this case, though...
I think I had already fixed many of the card names in the log where the card names are plural, but Rats was one I missed, so I fixed that among with the card text.
"Schleicher" was my first attempt at translating the card before I had the original name. Apparently I didn't check all occurrences.
I just looked at the American Rats card on ds and it says in the original "Gain a Rats". I have no idea how that grammatical incorrectness (if it is any) is perceived by native speakers. It's obvious that it talks about a Rats card, but in German, at least to my understanding "Nimm eine Ratten" just sounds wrong.
Why not taking the original text from the German paper card version for "Rats" ?
"Nimm dir eine Ratten-Karte. Entsorge eine Karte aus deiner Hand, die keine Ratten-Karte ist. (Decke deine Handkarten auf, wenn du nur Ratten auf der Hand hast). ---- Wenn Du diese Karte entsorgst +1 Karte.
The shown card text for German Ratten/Rats has a small problem (1.2.2), probably from the latest edit, which corrected the "eine Ratten"-issue :). It now reads
...Entsorge eine Nicht-Ratten-Karte Entsorge deiner Hand (oder decke...)
The marked word should be "aus" instead.
I did some extra work to check the German text written on the kingdom cards - mostly only little typos, but this should be corrected in one of the next releases to leave back a more professional impression for the translation.
Current fault in bold / correction is underlined
Maskerade (Masquerade) - keine Karten auf der Karten auf der Hand – keine Karten auf der Hand
Trickser (Swindler) - Jeder andere Spielern – Jeder andere Spieler
Verwandlung (Transmute) - Entsorge einer Karte – Entsorge eine Karte
Quacksalber (Mountebank)- Jeder andere Spielern – Jeder andere Spieler
Wegkreuzung (Crossroads) - pro aufdeckter Punktekarte – pro aufgedeckter Punktekarte
Orakel (Oracle) - die obersten beiden Karte – die obersten beiden Karten
Graf (Count) - oder lege eine Handkarten – oder lege eine Handkarte
Marktplatz (Market Place) - Markplatz – Marktplatz (falscher Kartentitel)
Raubzug (Pillage) - Nimm Dir 2 Beuten vom Beute-Stapel – Nimm dir 2 Karten vom Beute-Stapel (Plural von Beute existiert nicht im Deutschen)
Ratten (Rats) (bitte Text von der deutschen Papierversion übernehmen)
Nimm dir eine Ratten-Karte. Entsorge eine Karte aus deiner Hand, die keine Ratten-Karte ist. (Decke deine Handkarten auf, wenn du nur Ratten auf der Hand hast). ---- Wenn Du diese Karte entsorgst +1 Karte.
Kunsthandwerker (Artificer) - Nachziehstapel nehmen, die die genau – Nachziehstapel nehmen, die genau
Ausrüstung (Gear) - Lege bis zu zwei Karte – Lege bis zu zwei Karten
Elster (Magpie) - Karte deines Nachziehstapel auf – Karte deines Nachziehstapels auf
Kurier (Messenger) - Wenn dieses der erster Kauf – Wenn dieses der erste Kauf
Wanderzirkus (Travelling Fair) - Wenn in diesem Zug eine Karte nimmst – Wenn du in diesem Zug eine Karte nimmst
Stadtviertel (City Quarter) - Pro aufgeckter Aktionskarte – pro aufgedeckter Aktionskarte
Zauberin (Enchantress) - jedes anderer Spielers – jedes anderen Spielers
Ingenieurin (Engineer) - Du darfst die Ingeneurin entsorgen – Du darfst die Ingenieurin entsorgen
In the game log, Possession turns are still marked with [Possession], not Besessenheit. I assume the same is true for other etxra turn cards.
Quote from: Martin plays Piano on 06 April 2017, 03:51:51 PM
Raubzug (Pillage) - Nimm Dir 2 Beuten vom Beute-Stapel – Nimm dir 2 Karten vom Beute-Stapel (Plural von Beute existiert nicht im Deutschen)
Yes it sounds strange, but there is a plural: http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Beute_Anteil_Opfer
tufftaeh corrected me about this in the first place ;)
Thanks checking all the card texts.
When one has a Royal Seal in play or buys a Travelling Fair and then gains a card, the option to put the card on the deck is presented in English as
You gain a Chapel
and...
• may topdeck.
This misses the object (it would more completely read "may topdeck it"), but this seems understandable.
In German, the topdeck verb has been replaced by a clause (because we don't have that as a single verb)
Du nimmst eine Kapelle
und...
• darfst * auf den Nachziehstapel legen.
The * is not actually there but represents the place where in German the object name would have to go. Using pronouns, this would be "er/sie/es/sie" for male/female/neutral/plural genus.
Changed to:
"darfst die Karte auf den Nachziehstapel legen"
which sounds nice enough to me if the card itself is named in the line above.
With a bit more effort we could probably get the card name itself again, but I'd prefer it this way.
Of course, the easiest solutions is the one I never come up with ;)
Overlord says "Wähle Karte zum Immitieren" in the play area and "Welche Karte soll immitiert werden." in the log.
Should be "Wähle Karte zum Imitieren" and "Welche Karte soll imitiert werden?"
The phrase used in the log when Wine Merchant/Weinhändler can be discarded from the Tavern Mat has always been scrambled in German. I always assumed it was also scrambled in English as well, but when I recently started playing with the English UI from time to time I realized that this wasn't the case. The "END_OF_BUY_PHASE"-placeholder is only present in the German version, while English and Russion have it correct, see attached picture. So I guess this was just forgotten in the translation.
Added: My suggestion would be to use "beendest die Kaufphase" instead of "END_OF_BUY_PHASE" and "legst den Weinhändler ab" instead of just "Weinhändler".
When playing Stonemason, the box in the middle of the screen asks me to discard a card ("Handkarte ablegen") instead of trashing one ("Handkarte entsorgen"). The log is correct ("Entsorge eine Karte aus deiner Hand."), though.
Quotem bekommt +1 Buy (von Seeweg)
Should be
Quotem bekommt +1 Kauf (von Seeweg)