Shuffle iT Forum

Dominion => Bug Reports => Game Log Issues => Topic started by: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 11:43:26 AM

Title: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 11:43:26 AM
I've taken a close look at the German translation. It seems to be very solid, the translators have been doing a great job!  I really like that articles and even plural forms have been considered and implemented correctly:

L spielt einen Gesandten.
P spielt eine Brücke.
P zieht ein Kupfer, ein Silber, ein Anwesen und 2 Blutzölle.

Really cool! :)



Nevertheless, I've found some small issues in the log:


Quote
Es ist deine Kaufphase, du darfst...
• Karten kaufe.

Should be "Karten kaufen"


Quote
Trete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.

Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."

Quote
Between turns

Obviously, the translation is missing here.

Quote
P legt eine Beute zurück in dem Beute-Stapel.

Should be "P legt eine Beute zurück in den Beute-Stapel." or "P legt eine Beute zurück auf den Beute-Stapel."

Quote
Du nehmen eine Universität
und...
• darf Wachturm aufdecken zum Entsorgen.
• darf Wachturm aufdecken zum auf den Nachziehstapel legen.

Should be
Du nimmst eine Universität
und...
darfst Wachturm aufdecken zum Entsorgen.
darfst Wachturm aufdecken zum auf den Nachziehstapel legen.

Horn Of Plenty:
Quote
Nimm dir eine Karte, die bis zu 5 Geld kostet. Es eine Punktekarte ist, entsorge diese Karte.

Should be "Nimm dir eine Karte, die bis zu 5 Geld kostet. Wenn es eine Punktekarte ist, entsorge diese Karte."
Title: Re: [German translation] Some minor issues
Post by: markus on 21 March 2017, 12:08:40 PM
Adding to that, I think that "Quick Match" and "Good Match" are not translated well, as "Spiel" has match's meaning of "game" and not "pairing". I'd suggest "Schneller Gegner" and "Guter Gegner" or "Vergleichbarer Gegner". Then, at least it's as understandable as in English.
"Bot-Spiel" could stay as is.
Title: Re: [German translation] Some minor issues
Post by: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 06:55:56 PM
Quote
P nimmt eine Gärten.

This is difficult, as "Gärten" is already the plural form of "Garten". I'd suggest omitting the article in this case:

"P nimmt Gärten."
Title: Re: [German translation] Some minor issues
Post by: Ingix on 21 March 2017, 07:41:45 PM
At least on my system (Windows 8.1, Firefox) the German name of the event "Defiled Shrine" (Entweihter Schrein) is just a very little bit to long, such that the vertical stroke of the beginning "E" and the last vertical stroke of the ending "N" are not visible.

++++

The text for Defiled Shrine/Entweihter Schrein says in the setup part to put 2 VP on each "Nicht-Sammlung-Aktions-Vorratsstapel". In english that would be "Non-Gathering-Action-Supply pile". Please note that the original english version has this part as "non-Gathering Action Supply pile". The crucial difference is that the english version makes it clear that the "non" refers to the "Gathering" part only.

The german version could very easily be interpreted to have the "non" also apply to the Action attribute. What happened is that the German tendency to connect some words with hyphens has made the totally readable english version, which has only one hypen for clarity, into a not so clear german version with 3 hyphens.

The actual printed german card uses a clearer but longer wording that puts the negation in a separate clause. I would suggest the following

Spielvorbereitung: Lege 2SP auf jeden Aktions-Vorratsstapel ohne den Typ Sammmlung.
(Setup: Put 2VP on each action supply pile without the type Gathering.)

++++

All landmarks, when viewed, still show the text "Landmark" in the upper right, when it should be "Landmarke". The same for Event/Ereignis

Title: Re: [German translation] Some minor issues
Post by: Psyduck on 21 March 2017, 09:45:02 PM
Quote
F kauft und nimmt eine Köngigliche Münze.

Should be "Königliche Münze"

Quote
P kauft und nimmt ein Weiser.

Should be "P kauft und nimmt einen Weisen."


Rebuild:
Quote
Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.

Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld kostet."
Title: Re: [German translation] Some minor issues
Post by: Ingix on 21 March 2017, 11:34:59 PM
Rebuild:
Quote
Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.

Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld kostet."

No, the problem is that Rebuild wants a victory card that cost up to 3 more, not up to 8 more.


++++

In addition, the same Problem as with Gardens/Gärten happens with Survivors/Überlebende. This word is already Plural, so omitting the article sounds like a good solution. It looks like this got flagged incorrectly as female ("R nimmt eine Überlebende"), which may be because "Überlebende" itself is the female version of a (single) survivor. But in this case it is supposed to refer to many survivors (as the English name says).
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: assemble_me on 22 March 2017, 08:00:18 AM
Thanks for the input and the commendation so far.

Quote
Quote
Trete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.

Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."

I kind of disagree here. Maybe the wording is a bit odd, but this refers to the progress of joining, so it's not technically wrong.
But maybe can have something nicer still.


Rebuild:
Quote
Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld mehr kostet.

Should be "Nimm dir eine Punktekarte, die bis zu 8 Geld kostet."

No, the problem is that Rebuild wants a victory card that cost up to 3 more, not up to 8 more.

Psyduck was right there. When Rebuild resolves, the client knows how much the trashed card costs, so there doesn't need to be a wording with "3 more", instead you're told how much the card your gaining may cost exactly.

I agree with anything else that was mentioned. The University/Watchtower thing was really entertaining ;). Many issues mentioned be fixed soon.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 22 March 2017, 12:39:22 PM
Thanks for the input and the commendation so far.

Quote
Quote
Trete Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei.

Should be "Tritt Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt bei." or "Spiel #2085283 auf frankfurt beigetreten."

I kind of disagree here. Maybe the wording is a bit odd, but this refers to the progress of joining, so it's not technically wrong.
But maybe can have something nicer still.


I can see your point here. I think it depends on which singular person is meant:

For me, it's the 3. person, as the other log entries also refer to the 3. person (Player x buys/gains/trashes/...).

In general, I can only repeat that you've done a really good job with the translations!
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: assemble_me on 22 March 2017, 07:37:27 PM
For me, it's the 3. person, as the other log entries also refer to the 3. person (Player x buys/gains/trashes/...).

In general, I can only repeat that you've done a really good job with the translations!

I still disagree about that one. It's not part of the game log, it doesn't appear there. I think, the client tells you what it's doing there. That's why it's 1st person to me. However, we don't really have to discuss about this further,
Yesterday, I already changed this to
"Du trittst Spiel #[num] auf [server] bei" ;)

Thanks again, lots of the credits go to drsteelhammer who translated a big chunk of the cards and the people who tested the German version, especially tufftaeh, who checked all our card translations and sent lots of remarks
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 22 March 2017, 09:07:42 PM
Quote
P spielt einen Riese.

Should be "P spielt einen Riesen."


Quote
Du start your turn und...

Should be "Du startest deinen Zug und..."
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Ingix on 24 March 2017, 12:04:55 AM
>I zieht eine Vogelfreie

This is Band of Misfits, so Vogelfreie is plural, not female, as the article suggests.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 24 March 2017, 05:29:27 PM
Quote
P spielt ein Handlanger.

Should be "P spielt einen Handlanger."

Quote
P kauft eine Queste.

Should be "P kauft eine Quest."

Quote
P spielt ein Lakai.

Should be "P spielt einen Lakaien."
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Ingix on 24 March 2017, 09:03:49 PM
When getting the Wine Merchant back from the Tavern mat:

> Du END_OF_BUY_PHASE und...

-->

Du beendest die Kaufphase und...
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 25 March 2017, 08:01:23 PM
"A spielt einen Brückentrolle."
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 25 March 2017, 08:09:14 PM
Quote
Wachturm hat den Anschluss an Fluch verloren (es wurde in einen anderen Bereich bewegt).

Should be "Wachturm hat den Anschluss an den/einen Fluch verloren (er wurde in einen anderen Bereich bewegt)." or something similar.

Not in the log, but since is the translation thread..
In the table configuration, the option to load an old game says:
Quote
Altes spiel laden

Should be "Altes Spiel laden"
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 27 March 2017, 05:51:35 PM
Not in the log, but as this is the translation thread:
Reveal area shows English card names (but German card texts).
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: trazoM on 27 March 2017, 08:37:53 PM
(https://img3.picload.org/image/rlwllilr/unbenannt.png)
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 28 March 2017, 12:43:48 AM
"D erhält ein Flüchtling."
"D spielt ein Flüchtling."
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Psyduck on 28 March 2017, 08:42:05 AM
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".

Nimm. Nimm (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Flexion:nehmen)!

Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Ingix on 28 March 2017, 09:38:12 PM
Card text of Transformation, at the end:

... und dir eine Karte auf die Hand zu nehmen, die bis zu (1coin-symbol) mehr kostet.

The bold die is missing from the text.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 28 March 2017, 09:58:58 PM
"g legt eine Verrückten zurück in dem Verrückter-Stapel." Drei auf einen Streich...
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: assemble_me on 28 March 2017, 11:59:03 PM
Unfortunately, the pile thing will be a bit harder to fix. :(



"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".

I kind of disagree with that one. The problem is "Nimm Kupfer" could suggest that you actually "gain" it. (That gain->nehmen translation of the original German translators is so terrible) Also the card text says that you reveal the copper and then put it into your hand, so I think "Decke Kupfer auf" is an all right compromise.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 29 March 2017, 12:44:44 AM
"Nimm Kupfer auf"?
"Kupfer auf die Hand"?
These buttons need to be wider... ;)
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: trazoM on 29 March 2017, 12:35:17 PM
"Decke Kupfer auf" when playing settlers should be "Nehme Kupfer" oder "Nehme ein Kupfer".

Nimm. Nimm (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Flexion:nehmen)!

Well, are all buttons imperative? I thought of it as a description what it do, so "Nehme Kupfer" would be appropriate. At least that is, what I tell real players if I do something.
Probably you are right.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 29 March 2017, 09:55:44 PM
"b wünscht sich Geschichtenerzähler und findet es."
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Ingix on 30 March 2017, 07:03:43 PM
At the end Screen, in the victory point detail list, for Wolf Den/Wolfsbau it gives me -6VP and says "genau ein ein Gold und ein Herzogtum" , where the last "ein" together with "Gold" is in a yellow color.

For Lord Rattington, it gives 0VP and says "genau ein nichts", which translates to "exactly one nothing". It's quite a bit of poetry, probably unintended.
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: tufftaeh on 30 March 2017, 09:42:18 PM
"D trashes nothing" -> "D konnte nichts entsorgen" is not exactly correct (Bonfire)
Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: Ingix on 30 March 2017, 11:28:10 PM
Does the game know about different declensions needed for different purposes in German (and other languages as well)? In English, different forms are used for singular/plural, otherwise they are the same (my limited amount of English grammer may make me look like a fool now).

For example

"This is a wine merchant", "I talk to a wine merchant", "I play a Wine Merchant"

all use the same phrase in english: "a wine merchant". In German, these require different declensions, mostly recognizable in the form of "ein":

"Das ist ein Weinhändler" (Nominativ), "Ich rede mit einem Weinhändler" (Dativ), "Ich spiele einen Weinhändler" (Akkusativ).

Most actions in Dominion use the Akkusativ in German (play,draw,gain), and many of the corrections we see in this thread show this. But in a few cases the Nominativ must be used. In a recent game in the end screen there was a card listed in the detailed VP list as "einen Weinhändler" (which would be Akkusativ of Wine Merchant), when it should have been "ein Weinhändler" (Nominativ).

If the distinction between those cases (Nominativ/Akkusativ) is not made in the code, it will always be wrong one way or the other. Since most of the time Akkusativ is used, which in many case is the same as Nominativ, this doesn't show very often.


Title: Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
Post by: assemble_me on 31 March 2017, 07:56:19 AM
We're working on the different grammatical cases. These differences for the definite and indefinite articles don't appear in English (where it's just always "a" or "the") and apparently neither in Russian. This is something that is not simply fixed by translating the words, something about the ways some small localized text blocks are used needs to get adjusted for it to work.

Actually I have never seen any instance where we need the article for the nominative case (Nominativ), only dative (Dativ) and accusative (Akkusativ), where the last one is certainly most common.

Mostly we have stuff like Blabla spielt/kauft/nimmt ein Blubb .

The dative cases include entries where you put something on supply piles, or like VPs that are put on a Landmark. Usually constructions that look like . It usually involves that you put something from place A to place B.
Blabla legt 2 Siegpunkte von dem X-Stapel auf den Y-Stapel.

I