Topics

Thanks for the opportunity to test the new client! Since I do not see a designated feedback thread, I open one here. Feel free to move it, whereever it fits best.

The good:
- I like the new way to introduce cards, sorted by types and levels. This looks like a huge improvement when you are starting to learn the game and go from base to silver and gold.
-The new mechanics intro texts are really nice and should help getting accustomted to a new 'level'
-The new symbols in the game itself look way more professional
- The animations are really clear right now
- The new plus buttons are a great improvement too
- I like the new, smaller log


Things to improve
- The new layout reqires landscape mode, when playing on a phone. This is fine, but there should be a hint, when starting in such a resolution. The most recent version is perfectly playable when held up, so it would be nice, if we could reach this state again. As usually, there are couple of interfaces overlapping each other even in landscape mode, but I hope these get fixed over time
- The animations feel pretty laggy right now. I do not know if it is due to their animation speed, or because of technical problems (Mobile, Chrome and Opera, good wifi).
- Same with all interfaces where a lot of card art is loaded (like in the new levels, but also in the card selection)
- Putting the resign button at zhe very left, next to the undo button, calls for many misclicks. A better position would be at the very right, right of the options button. It feels more logical when trying out all options from left to right and it works this way in many other games.
- It is nice that you can hide the action/buy/coins tracker, but if it reqires mandatory actions (like when you have a buy left), it should come up again.
- A close-button for the trash and play area would be nice. I know, it is redundant (you can click on the area to close it again), but it feels more in line with the other interfacees to have an x-button at the top right corner

I want to start this thread, with a great amount of appreciation for ShuffleIt's smooth release of 'Rennaissance', including the Promo Week with playable card. Cards (ord card-shaped things) are the heart of Dominion and I feel they are in good hands with ShuffleIt, thus I extended my supriction for half a a year.

Still, I'd like to question the Status Quo. In January 2018 we were asked about the following list of Priorities:

1. An offline client, allowing you to play campaigns against bots
2. A bot with a setting for different play styles
3. A strong bot.
4. Options for timed games
5. Options for undo settings
6. Online mini-tournaments; the option to easily create one for you & your friends.
7. Option to invite specific players to your table
8. More translations (to what language?)
9. Better animations when cards are gained/bought/played/...
10. Better visualization of split piles, Archive/Crypt contents, Prince targets, ...
10. Option to hide the log
11. Android app (or just improved compatibility?)
12. iPhone app (or just improved compatibility?)
13. Downloadable game logs
14. Improved moderation (dealing with chat abuse, slowplayers, ...)
15. Tutorial on how to play Dominion
16. Tutorial on how to play dominion online.

What we have seen since is...

- 8. More translations -> Addition of French and Chinese (January)
- 10. Better visualization of split piles, Archive/Crypt contents, Prince targets, ... (November)
- (to some extent) 9. Better animations when cards are gained/bought/played/... (November)

In addition, the King'sCourtier Mod was made an official feature, Autoplay was improved, expansion /landmark / event /project placeholders can be selected when creating a table (very welcome!) and there was some rework on UI and the game log, probably to match Renaissance better.

We heard that an client rework was in the making, leading to better AI, maybe campaigns, etc., but it seems to be stuck, as it is often the case with refactoring in IT. Similiar news reached us about a new table logic.

Given that the last quoted update was from June, I hoped to find some of the November backend rework in the Rennaissance release, but apparently this was not the case. This leads me to assume that every new expansion takes so much development time, that anything but minor improvements to the client are simply out of reach for ShuffleIT's manpower, as long as new expansions come out.

If this is true, I would really appreciate more attention to the glaring issue of the abysmal bot AI in an otherwise fine product. Hotfix it, please, if you cannot refactor it in time! From the comments in the feedback thread, I do not seem to be alone with this opinion, including DXV.

I would love to hear the developer's opinion and their plans for the future.

#9226099 on tokyo, 2P vs Bot

Turn 11: I trashed my Magic Lamp, gained 3 Wishes and in my next turn I still drew Magic Lamp? Initially I thought, Lord Rattington passed me his copy via Masquerade, but I did find no such action in the log.

Maybe it was because I undid my turn via /undo to the middle of Turn 11, where I initially played a second Gold causing the Magic Lamp not to fire.

For those of us who do not need/use Autoplay, it would be great to have an option to disable the display of the Autoplay UI in the card details. It takes up so much space and I find it quite distracting.

I start this topic, because I just had a 30 turns game which felt like Lord Rattington was trolling: He went crazy with Masquerade as always, but in this kingdom there was Apothecary (another one of his favorites) and Port (awesome: more Masquerade plays!). The experience reader might know what followed: I spent the next 30 turns passing cards to his carefully adjusted treasureless engine of Apothecary, Masquerade, Port and a lonely Rogue he picked up. He made sure to trash my treasures, so he could pass Apothecaries / Potion which he then regained with another Masquerade, to ensure that I could watch his wheel spinnining for another few minutes - with some audience involvement when the next Masquerade came up. Dominion can be a loooooong game, if one side des not want to win...

My play wa snot perfect, shuffles were unfortunate, etc., but this experience was far more annoying than the usual AI province trashing or empty hand plays. I know: These are known issues, Nocturne is coming, good AI takes time, so I do not want to turn this into another 'Blame the developer' topic. But it would be nice if we could identify at least the most actively annoying AI quirks, so ShuffleIT can get rid of these, while we are waiting for a genuinely more clever AI. So I invite everyone to share their own worst AI moment story here.

The Victory Point Counter is really hard to read in the current implementation. I know, that some people do not like this counter at all, but when you enable it, it should be really easy to read, as it is one of the most important information on the screen. In terms of font it should have at least the size of the text in the Action / Buy / Coin display in the middle of the screen.

For instance, I really do not understand, why the Victory Chip Point Counter is so much bigger than the display of the total amount of Victory Points. I am not interested in knowing that I gained 20 VP with Monument, but it is far more relevant to me that my current score is 13 VP, as a I gained all curses. With Empires and Landmarks this topic becomes even more important.

On Touch Device there is also a scaling problem with the Victory Points: While the Log stays always at a readable scale, the VP counter shrinks to tiny sizes, when you try to zoom in.

In a match against bots, the Undo Button should ignore the bot actions and immediately jump to the last player action.

At the moment, it is not possible, to undo an action which ended your turn with the Undo Button, as the Button just undoes one of the Bot actions, which the bot then repeats again. This is particularly annoying,as these turn-ending misclicks are usually the ones that hurt the most (i.e. buying the wrong card, playing a terminal action before the village, etc.).

I know of the option to use the /undo command, but this soluton is quite clumsy to use on my touch devise. The Interface button should allow for the same functionality, even if taking a few more clicks.

Not sure, if it should work this way, but Training on Wharf does not give the +1 coin, when Wharf is played as a Duration Card, coming from the mat:

Game #145 frankfurt-test

• Banned cards: Sentry, Inheritance, Stash
Players
Bbl (host)   |   Not Ready

Spectators
Ready Leave Table Edit Table You Win
Player
Score
Turns
1
Bbl
32
16
2
Lord Rattington
25
15
Bbl
Card
#
VP
Description
Curse
1
-1
Estate
3
3
Province
5
30
Lord Rattington
Card
#
VP
Description
Estate
1
1
Duchy
2
6
Province
3
18
B starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.
L starts with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

Turn 1 - Bbl
B plays 4 Coppers.
B buys and gains a Silver.
B draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

Turn 1 - Lord Rattington
L plays 3 Coppers.
L buys and gains an Amulet.
L draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 2 - Bbl
B plays 3 Coppers.
B buys and gains a Silver.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and an Estate.

Turn 2 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers.
L buys and gains a Potion.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 4 Coppers and a Potion.

Turn 3 - Bbl
B plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Wharf.
B draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

Turn 3 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers and a Potion.
L buys and gains a Familiar.
L draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and an Amulet.

Turn 4 - Bbl
B plays 3 Coppers.
B buys and gains a Silver.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and an Estate.

Turn 4 - Lord Rattington
L plays an Amulet.
L trashes an Estate.
L plays 3 Coppers.
L buys and gains a Silver.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 2 Coppers, 2 Estates and a Familiar.

Turn 5 - Bbl
B plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Wharf.
B draws 2 Coppers, 2 Silvers and an Estate.

Turn 5 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L trashes an Estate.
L plays a Familiar.
L draws a Copper.
B gains a Curse.
L plays 3 Coppers.
L buys and gains a Silver.
L draws 4 Coppers and a Silver.

Turn 6 - Bbl
B plays 2 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains a Wharf.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 3 Coppers, an Estate and a Wharf.

Turn 6 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Council Room.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws a Copper, an Estate, a Council Room, a Potion and an Amulet.

Turn 7 - Bbl
B plays a Wharf.
B draws 2 Silvers.
B plays 3 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains a Wharf.
B draws a Curse, 3 Coppers and a Wharf.

Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Council Room.
L draws 2 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B draws an Estate.
L plays 3 Coppers, a Potion and 2 Silvers.
L buys and gains a Gold.
L draws 4 Coppers and a Familiar.

Turn 8 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Silver and a Wharf (Wharf).
B plays a Wharf.
B draws a Copper and an Estate.
B plays 4 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Villa.
B puts a Villa into their hand.
B plays a Wharf.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 2 Coppers.
B plays 2 Coppers.
B buys and gains a Silver.
B draws a Copper, 2 Silvers, an Estate and a Wharf.

Turn 8 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Familiar.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws an Amulet.
B gains a Curse.
L plays an Amulet.
L trashes a Copper.
L plays 3 Coppers.
L buys and gains a Silver.
L draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Gold and an Estate.

Turn 9 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 3 Coppers and a Silver (Wharf).
B plays a Wharf.
B draws 2 Estates.
B plays 4 Coppers and 3 Silvers.
B buys and gains a Gold and an Amulet.
B draws a Curse, 2 Coppers, a Silver and a Villa.

Turn 9 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L gains a Silver.
L plays 2 Coppers, a Gold and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Gold.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws a Copper, a Silver, an Estate, a Council Room and a Potion.

Turn 10 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Copper and a Wharf (Wharf).
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws a Curse and a Silver.
B plays 3 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B buys a Training.
B moves +Coin token to the Wharf pile.
B draws 2 Coppers, a Silver and 2 Wharves.

Turn 10 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Council Room.
L draws 2 Coppers, a Silver and a Gold.
B draws an Estate.
L plays 3 Coppers, a Potion, a Gold and 2 Silvers.
L buys and gains a Province.
L draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Familiar and an Amulet.

Turn 11 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Copper and an Amulet (Wharf).
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Gold and an Estate.
B plays 2 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Villa.
B puts a Villa into their hand.
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Copper and an Estate.
B plays an Amulet.
B trashes an Estate.
B plays 2 Coppers and a Gold.
B buys and gains a Province.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws a Curse, a Copper, 2 Silvers and a Wharf.

Turn 11 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Familiar.
L draws a Gold.
B gains a Curse.
L plays an Amulet.
L plays 2 Coppers, a Gold and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Province.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 3 Coppers, a Silver and a Province.

Turn 12 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws 4 Coppers (Wharf).
B trashes a Curse.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws an Estate and a Villa.
B plays 5 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains 2 Wharves.
B draws a Curse, an Estate, a Province, a Wharf and a Villa.

Turn 12 - Lord Rattington
L starts their turn.
L plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Gold.
L draws 2 Golds, an Estate, a Council Room and a Familiar.

Turn 13 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Copper and a Silver (Wharf).
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Silver and a Gold.
B plays a Copper, a Gold and 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains 2 Wharves.
B shuffles their deck.
B draws a Curse, 2 Coppers, an Estate and a Wharf.

Turn 13 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Council Room.
L draws 2 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
B draws a Villa.
L plays 2 Coppers, 2 Golds and 2 Silvers.
L buys and gains a Province and a Magpie.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws a Copper, a Silver, a Gold, a Province and a Potion.

Turn 14 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Copper and a Silver (Wharf).
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Copper and a Wharf.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws an Estate and a Province.
B plays 4 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Province.
B draws a Copper, a Silver, a Gold, a Wharf and a Villa.

Turn 14 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Copper, a Potion, a Gold and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Duchy.
L draws 2 Coppers, a Silver, a Gold and a Province.

Turn 15 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws 2 Coppers, a Silver and a Wharf (Wharf).
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Silver and a Wharf.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Curse and a Wharf.
B plays a Copper and a Gold.
B buys and gains a Villa.
B puts a Villa into their hand.
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Wharf and an Amulet.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B shuffles their deck.
B draws a Curse and an Estate.
B plays 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains a Villa.
B puts a Villa into their hand.
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Copper and a Province.
B plays an Amulet.
B trashes a Curse.
B plays 3 Coppers and a Silver.
B buys and gains a Province and a Wharf.
B draws a Copper, a Silver, an Estate, a Wharf and a Villa.

Turn 15 - Lord Rattington
L plays 2 Coppers, a Gold and a Silver.
L buys and gains a Duchy.
L draws a Silver, a Gold, an Estate, a Province and a Familiar.

Turn 16 - Bbl
B starts their turn.
B draws a Copper and a Province (Wharf).
B shuffles their deck.
B draws 4 Coppers, a Silver, a Province, a Wharf and a Villa (Wharf).
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Villa.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Curse and a Province.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws a Gold and a Wharf.
B plays a Wharf.
B gets +1 Coin (from Training)
B draws an Estate and a Villa.
B plays 6 Coppers, a Gold and 2 Silvers.
B buys and gains an Estate and 2 Provinces.
B draws a Copper, 2 Silvers, a Wharf and a Villa.
Joining game #145 on frankfurt-test.

I think a general suggestion thread is easier to follow than everyboby creating there own 'XYZ's suggestion' thread. So I start one, and invite everybody to join in as well. :)

My suggestions for now
- Offer a way to play against Bots without making the table public first. I accidentally opened a few games against actual players, because I did not click the start button fast enough
- The End Screen should list the piled out Cards
- I miss a way to easily veto full expansions: If I did not overlook it, there seems to be no way to set up a table that vetoes Alchemy cards as a whole.
- The same goes for the other way around, requiring certain Sets: It would be great to be able to set up tables like 3 Alchemy Cards, 2 from Base, and 3 from Empires, the rest random
- Setting up tables by Card types could also be fun (3 attacks, 2 treasures, 3 Alt-VP, 1 trasher)
- I don't really understand, why some actions are buttons with a fixed position in the interface (i.e. trashing), while others need to be performed in the log (i.e. revealing Reactions). All should be buttons instead or being present on the table in any other way (like in the MF implementation).
- The existing Action buttons should be written out: '+1 Card' instead of 'Card', etc.

[lack of animations]

The new Client is really nice as it is, but I still think, there are a few decisions that are based too much of the needs of the established Dominion Community - minor decisions that can make it really hard for a newcomer to grasp the basics concepts of Dominion. Here's a list of things, I noticed:

1) The lack of animations was already mentioned here: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=576.0
2) The stacking of Cards from turn 1 on is unnecessarily confusing in my opinion: If you draw a hand of 3 Coppers and 2 Estates, it is really hard to realize that you do not hold 2 Cards (the ones you see), but 5. The only indicator is the red number at the top, which is easy to overlook (and could be anything, if you are new). Making Fun is far more visual here with showing all 5 Cards & I think it helps selling the base concept. Obviously, this in return creates the space & selection problems we all know and which the new client solves.
-> A simple fix would be to stack your Hand Cards only if your Cards in hand reach a certain threshold, that cannot displayed in this UI anymore (i.e. a hand with more than 6 Cards). This way, the very first turn of every new player is pretty clear and looks the same as in IRL Dominion. Only when the player dives a bit deeper, it gets more complicated and even then merely, when there is actual need for it (there are plenty of boards where you stay with a 5 Card hand from beginning to the end). This would also make it far easier to follow handsize-reducing effects like Militia, Oasis, etc.
-> As usual, you could make this display variant an option to turn off in the Options Menu.
3) Why do you still use the old revised Copper / Silver / Gold cards?
-> Use the newer version with the big numbers on it, is far more clear in terms of comprehending what they provide you with: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Copper.jpg
4) From my experience with Casual Users, Right-Clicking for extra Information is a tough call, even if it seems natural to PC users. Both older & younger players tend to use only the Left-Click, as they are used from Touch Devices. But if you do not use the Right-Click, you will never get any clue, what a Card is supposed to do. Left-Click for immediate purchase can also cause a lot of unintended purchase, while you are still exploring the Interface - definitely not the best first user experience.
-> I would recommend to swap the mouse buttons, and bring it closer to the way Making Fun works: Left-Click does give the information popup and in it there is a BIG +-Button for purchase, Right-Click purchases the card-shaped thing immediately (for the experienced players).

I do not want to dumb things down, or make the game harder to use for the Hardcore crowd. But it would be a shame, if such UI problems would hamper the success of this awesome version & company.