Messages

The earlier time-frame was during the first half of October, which has, obviously, passed.  Any updated estimate?  I enjoyed the pre-release free trial and am looking forward to adding this kingdom to the mix.

Gorling,
I thought for *sure* I had checked the log for something to click.  But maybe I did not.

I know 100% that nothing popped up on screen (like, for example, Watchtower, where 'trash,' "topdeck" etc are clear-as-a-bell options, and where it would be impossible to miss them).

Game19635362.  Board had Vassal, Apothecary, and Legionary (etc, etc)

Turn 13.  I had Vassal in my hand.  By using Apoth, I was of course allowed to arrange the order of the upcoming set of cards.  I deliberately put Leg. on top, so I could next combo it with Vassal.  But when I then did play V, the game did not give me the option of playing the top card/action card--it instead automatically discarded that Leg card!  Hmmm....

Turn 16.  The same thing happened.  By using Apoth, I was able to arrange the upcoming cards, and this time put a second Apoth on top of my deck.  But when I then played Vassal, that top Apoth was again automatically discarded by the game's AI.

Did I somehow do something wrong?  Is this a known bug?  A 'new' one?  Or am I not understanding how to correctly use Vassal? . . . it's a card that almost never comes up in my games, for whatever reason, so this game might have been the first time I've ever tried to use it.

It should go to the draw pile, but I assume that's what you meant to write.
Develop indeed takes precedence: Den of Sin means that the card goes to hand instead of discard pile first. Develop then moves it to the top of the deck.

Marcus, WHY does Develop take precedence?  Is there some sort of default Dominion rule that applies here?  I'm thinking of Fortress, where--when it's trashed--seems to always go back into my hand, regardless of the wording/instructions on the other cards, which might call for the card to go into the discard pile, on top of my deck, etc..

I guess what I am really wondering is:  Is there a list of special card combos, where at least one instruction on Card One directly conflicts with an instruction on Card Two?  And, if so, is there an easy way of knowing which card's instructions takes priority?  Or is it a question of memorizing each of these oddities?

Mith,
Thanks for the game summaries.  Interesting to read...you both used strategies in places that I would not have, so a good learning experience for me.

Thanks for the clarification--your answer was in line with my expectations.

At some point, I think it would be very interesting to poll the players on the site, on these (and other??) issues.  Have you played a game with a slow-roller?  With someone verbally abusive?  Approx how many such games have you had like this?  Etc. 

I ask, because I have really not encountered this, but see many many posts by people who have...and some posts by people who have faced this many times.  Am I just lucky?  Or are 95% of the players in my shoes, and people who get matched up with jerks just the rare exception?  Of course I can't base any conclusion on just the posts here...no one ever posts to say, "Just had a normal game, with a polite opponent, and nothing unusual happened!"  :)

Dog bites man; versus man bites dog

M,
It was my understanding that these games were voided (for ratings purposes) if the player was banned.  But that would happen only if some sufficient number of people complained about any one person doing this (or other bad acts), right?

Are you saying that if I am playing, say, John Q Public and I blacklist her, that this game is automatically discounted?  (I would not object to this rule--I'm asking for informational purposes.)  Or were you saying that the game will--at least temporarily--count, and then, later, if enough people complain about Player Q Public, that all her past games will be voided, including the one that I played against her yesterday, or last week, or 7 months ago???

No, no other penalty...they are playing within the game's rules.  As you noted yourself; play out the game, blacklist them, and you'll never have to see them again.

But sorry to read about the experience.  It's rare, in terms of percentage of players who do this.  But large enough in raw numbers to be an issue.

Trashing a Fortress in supply with Lurker is something commonly done. That way you put it in your hand but haven't gained it.

Thanks to you guys for the examples.  Most were not surprising to me, but Fortress-via-Lurker does surprise me.  I get it, intuitively, for Masquerade.  That's clearly some sort of exchange.  But not true for the via-Lurker example.  I guess you gain it but do not "gain" it.  :)

I guess it would be more accurately stated, "You get it, but do not gain it."  ...and this just has to be taken on faith.

By the way; given the above, it's weird that cards obtains via Mine are 'gained.'  You get rid of one card and get a different card (or even the same card, of course, if you want and it's available).  The text of Mine make it clear that it is "gained."   But the logic of getting rid of one card and getting another one seems *really* similar in real-life effect to Travelers...even if the text on the card is different.

But I can see why (1) No one wants 3 paragraphs of exquisitely-crafted detailed instructions--which would require a magnifying glass to read!--for kingdom cards. :), and (2) how language on a card that was perfectly clear in a kingdom could, later, become ambiguous or opaque down-the-road, due to some new wrinkle in Dominion--like Events, or a Possession-type card, etc..  It's part of the fun for me with this game.  As a lawyer, I really enjoy exploring edge cases.  Not sure if that is a feature or a bug with my personality.

Thanks Ingix. 
I'm actually glad about this.  The combo would be just too powerful otherwise.

By the way; are there other examples in Dominion, of where a player gets a new card but it does not count as 'gaining?'  I think it would be a good idea for me to memorize a list of these exceptions, since it's gonna be an important factor with the new kingdom.

[during your Clean-up phase]

Game 18768333, Turn 13

The kingdom had Page (etc) and Innovation.  I said to myself, "Cool, I just thought of a brilliant strategy to zoom through the travelers and get to Champion in world-record time."

Innovation says, "First time you gain an action in each turn, can immediately put it aside and play it."  By and large; this works fine.  But as you can see in my game, it did not work with travelers.

As long as I make sure not to buy or otherwise gain any other action card in a turn, once I turn in my "old" Traveler and gain the next one, Innovation should kick in, right?  This should allow me to 'churn' through the Traveler sequence in consecutive turns.  The only explanation for the failure to do this that I can think of is if, with Traveler, you exchange the cards AFTER your turn, which would take it out of the effect influence of Innovation.  But I doubt this...the exchange is clearly done (from the wording of Traveler cards) during the discard phase, which is--obviously--during your turn.  Right?  At least; that is what the Wiki entry says under "Discard.": To discard a card is to move it into your discard pile. This is done every turn during your Clean-up phase . . . [emphasis added]

Bug, or some subtlety that I'm missing????

(Added wrinkle: I actually DID think it was working as I had expected during one or two of the earlier Traveler exchanges, but I'm not 100% sure of this.  It definitely did not work on Turn 13, where I was going from Hero to Champion...I was paying closer attention to this issue at that point.)

I played a Treasurer with no treasures in the trash. I'm presented with some options that are confusing to me.

The log says I can either trash a treasure or take the key. I'm seeing the treasures in my hand highlighted like I can trash them and then I see two buttons "Take the Key" and "Do nothing".

I know that if I choose to gain a treasure from the trash that nothing will happen and that's why the button says "do nothing" -- but this is more confusing to me than just a button that says to gain from the trash and then allowing nothing to happen. Also, it seems like the game log is missing an option for me (either take a treasure from the trash or do nothing, whichever you end up deciding is what you're going to keep)

I also found the interface confusing.  Maybe due to my completely unfamiliarity with the card.  But it probably could be written out a bit more clearly.

Wow, I just realized that possession could make you get rid of your opponent's overlords/bands of misfits for good.

Reason # 187 to hate Possession!!!  ;D

Can you Throne (or, Queen Court, or Crown) an Acting Troupe and get the extra Villagers?  Or, since the A.T. card says to trash, will the Throne(etc) search for the action card but no longer be able to find it, and therefore, be unable to effect the extra 4 or 8 Villagers?

Stef,
What are you quoting from?  If it's another thread, can you include enough information here so that we readers know what you are talking about?  :)

(Or a link to the other thread...that would be fine as well.)