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Messages - Ingix

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General Discussion / Re: THIS SITE IS JACKED RIGHT NOW
« on: 29 March 2017, 09:07:03 PM »
I only see what gets written here, so I have to judge by that. I noticed the complaints about audio, but it didn't feel to me "many people", but I was possibly biased because it didn't affect me. I couldn't prevent a chuckle when I read someone complaining that the game used audio during a meeting that person was in, though ;-)

From the posts in the "3 things you would like most" thread I came to the conclusion that the game is played by a relatively broad demographic and with wildly different playstyles. Some play on mobile clients almost only with each other, others use a destop computer to play against bots. Some want ranked play very very much, others would rather play the "Adventure Mode" from Making Fun.

I guess that the group of testers is more homogenous, thus not really reflecting all the different use cases the 'real audience' presents.

I also think you do really good at presenting the problems you see (or are told). It's just that I sometimes have a different opinion about what is important and not (which is of course also totally subjective).

Does the game log itself include the game number? If the game number was in more places I'd be more likely to write it down.

It seems to be only on top of the chat, which scrolls down when the chat is used, as you mentioned. Even on the end screen it is nowhere else to be seen. I think adding it somewhere visible on the end screen might be a good idea.

No need to be sorry. It should just become "second nature" to write down the game number, because the game is so solid that bugs are actually rare and probably involve the interaction of several cards or other circumstances. I'll try to reproduce a setting sometimes, but then I can't know if there maybe was some special card interaction that was not mentioned.

For example, in http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1226 one known bug is "Some (maybe all) Cards that affect the player to your left/right go the wrong way". Since I almost exclusively play 2-player games, I would never have caught this bug, because in 2-player, left=right.

General Discussion / Re: THIS SITE IS JACKED RIGHT NOW
« on: 29 March 2017, 02:31:56 PM »

With all due respect, the journey token issue and the fact that the endgame sounds can't be turned off or made quieter (or the fact that it now dings when I put something in the chat when it used to not do that) should all have been caught, addressed, and fixed before the public ever saw them.

With the exception to the Journey token issue, all the rest seem to be issues that you do not like about the client, not things that are obvious problems. It is one thing to test changes to see if they work or have unintended consequences, this should be (and according to Stef is) done. It is quite another to do focus testing to find out if there are many players who do not like  a certain thing.

If something is really bad, players will complain about it (Journey token). This way we get at least some additional features without the additional cycle of first discussing how to exactly do it.

General Discussion / Re: Welcome to Dominion Online
« on: 29 March 2017, 02:17:45 PM »
It was talked about initially. First (AFAIK) it was mentioned here


another mention is for example here:


If you want to read more, just search this forum for "offline"

I still think the best option for such effects is to make the actual card (in this case Arena) clickable at the correct time (beginning of buy phase), together with all your treasure cards.

This mimicks real card play the most: You have the option to use the effect before you play Treasure, but the game is not actively reminding you of it (just like your IRL opponent likely isn't, unless it is a teaching or friendly game). You can simply ignore it later when there are no more VP points on the Arena, without needing an extra 'decline' prompt or automating setting. Even more nicely, in case you really want to use it when no VP can be gained (maybe: Haunted Woods against you) no additional UI is needed, either.

Interface Issues / Re: Royal Carriage "Done Reacting"
« on: 28 March 2017, 11:27:20 PM »
Its even simpler as calling rc/cotr in middle of chain is strategic mistake. Reacting at end is better as same when you call rc but you don't have to due to extra information.

As much as I can sypathize with you, the game should allow all legal plays, not just strategically correct play. It should use an as easy as possible interface to do that, agreed, but the number of cards that could potentially interact with that is just to great.

Sounds like a bug. Do you have the game number of that game?

General Discussion / Re: Welcome to Dominion Online
« on: 28 March 2017, 11:04:37 PM »
From what I can tell on the new site I have only rented them for a year? Are you kidding? You can't simply turn a purchase into a short term rental!

The game license to use Dominion was only given to GoKo/Making Fun for a limited time and not renewed. That is the unfortunate nature of online games these days: Technical and legal reasons may turn any "purchase" that needs a central game server into nothing at any moment. See this thread for a more detailed discussion, including info from game designer Donald X.:


That's why I am so enthusaistic about a standalone client promised from the current developers that can play AI games locally: It allows me to play the game regardless of any expiring licensing deal.

Game Log Issues / Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
« on: 28 March 2017, 09:38:12 PM »
Card text of Transformation, at the end:

... und dir eine Karte auf die Hand zu nehmen, die bis zu (1coin-symbol) mehr kostet.

The bold die is missing from the text.

General Discussion / Re: Undo during opponents turn?
« on: 28 March 2017, 11:18:41 AM »
If you have Autobuy enabled in the options, the game will take your coin tokens into account when deciding which cards you can buy. That would explain "I have bought a card using tokens without clicking on 'use token'".

OTOH, the game you described clearly had a bug that needs to be fixed, independent of any undo requests. Do you have by any chance the game number?

Game Log Issues / Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
« on: 24 March 2017, 09:03:49 PM »
When getting the Wine Merchant back from the Tavern mat:

> Du END_OF_BUY_PHASE und...


Du beendest die Kaufphase und...

Card Bugs / Re: Vassal does not work
« on: 24 March 2017, 10:40:13 AM »
UI is hard, and it is probably made harder for this game by the fact that several options that are by the player perceived to be "at the same time" are in a strict sense sequential. I really like the fact that the game tries to hide that from the player and presents him with all the options that have accumulated in the past. That way he is asked about them only when he needs to make a decision, either because the game would otherwise do something that would give him new information, or because the game is waiting for the player to do something anyway.

I think that the physical card game can be mostly played by players who do not speak a common language (who recognise the cards by pictures alone) by observing what cards move from one place to another. If my opponent plays a Plaza and then moves a card from his hand to his discard pile, where it turns out to be a Copper, he has used the optional ability of Plaza and can take a coin token. If, in the same situation, he moves a card from his hand into play, where it turns out to be a Milita, he has not used the optional ability of Plaza, but played an Action, so he does not get a coin token.

In the online game, the destination of a card is not usually needed, because the game can normally determine that itself. In the Plaza example above, the game should make all the actions and treasures in the player's hand clickable. If it is a treasure, it gets discarded. If it is an action, it is played. If it is a Crown, the player gets asked if he wants to discard it or play it. I think trying to emulate that behaviour of 'letting the card movement speak for itself' is not trying to be 'clever', but trying to emulate the natural flow of the real life card game. I think it is consistent, but not with a strict 'opt-in' or 'opt-out' model.

The main problem with this approach is that it needs infrastructure in the game server and client. Both need to understand that at a given (real) time the game can be in 'many states at once'. In the Plaza example, there are just three options the player has: Discard a treasure, play an Action, End the Action phase. The last two happen at the same time, while the first happens slightly before. With Reserve cards in the mix (Royal Carriage, Coin of the Realm), that number of states can increase. I don't know if the game can handle this. Apparently it can to some extent, as witnessed by many interactions. It would be nice to know if thinking in that direction would be useful for the developer (I have a complete treatment for the discard-in-cleanup step that takes into account Scheming Herbalists and Alchemists that want to sell Capital investments to Hermits and Treasuries to Travellers, for example ;-)


Generally, I personally think that the game UI is workable at the moment. It may not be optimal (but that would vary between people anyway) and a few cases with 4 or more buttons at the same time (Pawn) feel really bad. But it is workable and the exceptions it causes where somthing should be doable but isn't are on the very fringes mostly. I think the real work that needs to be done, when reading the current threads are in alphbetical order

AI that does not totally stupid things with some cards,
mobile clients,
player/game policing (game clock, blacklisting),
ranked play

Card Bugs / Re: Possession + Ill Gotten Gains & Bridge Troll
« on: 24 March 2017, 12:17:37 AM »
@SaintO: In the lower right below the game log the game client will show the game number. If you think you found a bug, give that number in your post and, if possible, the turn on which it happened. That game number allows anybody (including Stef) to reload that game and take a look at what happened.

This can help if the situation is complicated and can't easily be described, or if maybe there is some other effect that you forgot to take into account (Enchantress has popped up a few times in cases of 'mysterious bugs', and I saw it just seconds before almost also posting a bug report for a card not working).

Game Log Issues / Re: [German translation] Collection of issues
« on: 24 March 2017, 12:04:55 AM »
>I zieht eine Vogelfreie

This is Band of Misfits, so Vogelfreie is plural, not female, as the article suggests.

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