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General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by dextrapunch on 11 March 2018, 06:19:22 PM »

I say that, if the game is unbalanced, the outcome usually depends on the playes' skills.
For example, I am rank 44, I would very seldom beat a rank 52+ and when it is, it's probably because I were lucky, if not surely and entirely.

On the other hand, if the game is balanced, the outcome usually doesn't depend on the last minute strategical move, but basically on how lucky the players were picking cards.

For example a game agains a player ranked 43 or 44 for me depends basically on which opening we have, who starts first, and which card you draw, not on how you build your deck.

I liked the idea of dominion because I thought it would have depended 99% on the deck building, but it has a lot of mechanics that are trivial and should be adjusted. Instead it staied pretty muche the same all time long, since I bought the first real Dominion Base set box. Something should be fixed in order to reduce the impact of luck and reward skill choices.
General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by tufftaeh on 11 March 2018, 04:45:49 PM »
I'm not sure I understand completely, but are you saying that a single game between equally skilled opponents who make the same amount of mistakes in that game should always result in a tie (to allow you to like Dominion)? For me, personally, that would take a lot of fun out of Dominion because I wouldn't have that suspense element anymore in these games where both players play the same strategy. As long as we don't have a perfect AI which can quantify the win/loss of win probability caused by each single player turn I prefer that suspense over too many ties.
General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by dextrapunch on 11 March 2018, 03:09:02 PM »
I am sorry, but I am not only a Dominion player.

I was ranked in the Chess rankings in my own country when I was young.
Then I've been a Magic The Gathering player for 20 years.
Then I am a RPG player weekly
Then I am a boardgame player weekly.

See, I'm not telling you that I am Top Star Dominion Number One player.
I mostly like to do combo. I don't even aim to win every game.

But when I am playing Risk I know I am not playing Puerto Rico, to say one, and I know that dice will have a preponderant role, or picking the right cards to exchange for tanks.

I'm not saying that Domionion is based on luck, again, as Risk is mostly based on luck with a minor touch of skill.

I'm saying that, and you can admit this without any shame, when two players are equally skilled, a game can last 3 rounds if one gets the right cards and the other the worst ones.

After talking with you it is obvious that this is perfectly fitting your likeliness to play a game.
In my case, it goes to fill an empty can of patience that today had its last drip.

You can have fun how much you want, but as much as you can say to me "you do not understand how dominion works because you are a low-level player and you're blaming your luck when you should blame your skill" (which is not the case but you are free to express your opinion) I can also say "You may have this feeling, but having been a player of many different games in 30 years I can tell you that luck in Dominion play a main role in a game. Not the biggest one, but not to underestimate either"

Who's right and who's wrong?
Probably neither.
You will think that Dominion is based on pure strategy, I will think that it's a mix, we both are entitled to our opinion, and I quit because it's getting annoying (playing, not talking to you).
General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by Martin plays Piano on 11 March 2018, 02:48:34 PM »
Ok, I'm taking back the 'bullshit', sorry for that (you can replace this with another word of your choice) - but please don't stop pruning yourself - you've played a few thousand games here - you've had some fun with it. Above all, you haven't been unlucky every time, but that's exactly what you write here - "I lost many, many, many times just because of this and it's getting frustrating".

You might have lost because you were unlucky - but you'll have lost a lot more often because you weren't good enough - because you're still at level 44 despite all the 1000 rated games. That's quite a reasonable level, but if you come to the conclusion after so much experience, it's often due to the luck of the others, then you simply don't understand it - you didn't understand the real appeal of this incredibly complex and versatile game.

I write aggressively to wake you up, to keep you here - and most of all I want to keep other players from bumping into the same horn. Dominion has never been a game where luck plays a decisive role - I hardly know of any (modern) game so much based on strategy, skill and experience. Of course, it's lucky to be able to open the game with Mountebank/Chapel, but that's no reason to win the game in the end.

So, think about it again and just stay here.
You are addicted enough, that you don't really want to go either ...
General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by dextrapunch on 11 March 2018, 10:47:20 AM »
I think you read what you wanted to read, because what I wrote is entirely different.

I just said, that this game it TOO MUCH based on luck, whereas your strawman argument is that I said that is ENTIRELY based on luck which I never said.
And even if I did, which I didn't, calling another person's opinion "bullshit" is very vulgar in my opinion.

Other examples of luck In Dominion?
You start with 2/5 coppers, your opponent starts with 3/4 and there are NO cards costing either 2 or 5, whereas there are costing 3 and 4.
You basically lost one turn to the opponent.

And I could go on forever.

I repeat, it's NOT entirely based on luck, but if I want a luck component in a game it may be 2%, 3%... in Dominion that component is way higher. Not 100%. Not even 50% of course. But not even 2% in my opinion.

In that way I prefere chess. 0% luck. Skill only. Ranking is effective.
General Discussion / Re: Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by Martin plays Piano on 11 March 2018, 10:17:08 AM »
Bye, destrapunch.
But when you say goodbye, please do not tell me any nonsense!

I'm with you that players of equal value can win with each other through the fact that the other has a bit more luck. But that's supposed to balance out in a thousand games, isn't it? And of course you can also win against a strong opponent, because luck is on your side - but that's not the case for a vast part of all games.

I see you in the Leaderboard at level 44 - so there's plenty of room for further improvement, there are 5.000 players ahead of you. From this point of view, claiming that these 5.000 players are above you in the ranking because they all have more luck is really total bullshit.

But ok, you probably won't read these lines any more, because you are looking for a game that offers more skill and less luck - for that I really wish you good luck.

General Discussion / Why I am quitting dominion
« Last post by dextrapunch on 11 March 2018, 09:29:38 AM »
After years of playing dominion, today I decided to quit.

This is because this game has two major bugs.

BUG 1: If a player starts the game, they've a big advantage. Too many times I lost a game because the opponent could play a turn more than me. When two players' skill are very balanced this is crucial.

BUG 2: More than many games, the more I play the more I think that, when two player's skill are balanced, the game doesn't rely on the player's ideas, the tactical move or the smart card buy. I think, and I've plaied thousand of games, that's entirely luck.

I decided to quit today after I carefully planned to win a game, my opponent had only ONE card that could prevent me from winning, we had dozens of cards in our decks, opponent had only 4 cards in his hand, but guess what, he had the only very card that prevented me from winning. And of course he only had ONE copy of that card in his deck.

That's too much for me to bear.
Some kind of randomness is nice to a game, but when it's too much it's too much.

And, yes, I may just look like the typical sore loser, but I am not.
I lost many, many, many times just because of this and it's getting frustrating.
The first time you say "Oh..."
The 2000th time you say "Oh, no, not again..."

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me thousand times, shame on me.
Goodbye everybody.
Thanks.  That definitely explains why my Knights stopped working as an attack.

[Now, the idiocy of LR deciding to "suicide" by trashing most of its cards is an entirely different matter, of course.  Alas.]  :(

I wonder why that happened.  I've definitely played 'bot games with a trasher in the deck, and LR did not do that sure-loss suicide strategy.  Is this a known bug/behavior with specific trashers in conjunction with other specific cards?  Or is this just something random, and just something that pops up from time-to-time?  Now, I wish I had not ended the game when I did . .  if I had extended the game by 10 or 20 turns; would LR have trashed the last two Provinces it had?  And played out the entire rest of the game with one Junk Dealer, and nothing else--vainly trying to trash cards it no longer had.   :-)
General Discussion / Re: User that insults your strategy
« Last post by Turn turn on 10 March 2018, 08:16:48 PM »
I do nit jnow where to mentiin slowrollers here, but here is another one: player is called [redacted], from the moment he was behind in the game he took several minutes per card he played. Please ban this loser.
Other Bugs / Re: Possession in Black Market pile
« Last post by Ingix on 10 March 2018, 08:02:13 PM »
Thanks for the info! I guess this may be an oversight.
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