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91
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by kieranmillar on 20 June 2018, 10:06:42 PM »
DominionTroll, it astounds me that you think you deserve to be treated with respect despite your obnoxious in-game behaviour merely because you try to act polite when other people are watching. I challenge you to go to a real-life board game meetup and behave the way you do in-game and then try to drop these same justifications against them, that acting horrible is OK because "it's just a strategy". You never will of course, because you only behave this way in private when you think you can get away with it. You are not a shining beacon amongst a sea of foul-mouthed banshees, you're a two-faced hypocrite. Your attempt to claim the moral high-ground is absurd.

Your paper-thin attempts to claim that your behaviour is acceptable because it's "just a strategy to win the game" is merely a refusal to accept the consequences of your actions. You are only lying to yourself. You try to justify it to yourself by telling yourself that it's OK because it's in pursuit of a more noble goal, winning the game. That the ends justify the means. But they do not. The fact that you say you have occasionally felt bad about is telling. It's why you jump through so many hoops to try and pass off your behaviour as being for a greater cause. Because if you had to actually face up to the consequences of what you are doing you wouldn't be able to handle it.

The separation between in-game and out-of-game behaviour is not a large as you think, it's actually non-existent. There are not two different societies here, the same people occupy both worlds.
92
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by blamelewis on 20 June 2018, 08:41:52 PM »
Yeah I second that... Trolling is just a strategy is it? Then be honest and tell us your username so we can avoid your rotten strategy.... thanks!

T.
93
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by doubledukes74 on 20 June 2018, 06:32:15 PM »
In reading all of these responses, particularly from DominionTroll, I'm struck by the fact that so many people seem to lose sight of the fact this is a GAME. It is supposed to be recreational, something that makes us all feel good, and to be a respite from our real lives. It's too bad there isn't a way for those of us who are more casual to have a way to find each other on the site. For example, for those folks who want to ban "undo" perhaps that is something folks can add to their profile and it could be a matching setting.

DominionTroll - you should really reconsider your life choices if you need to resort to tearing people down on an online game just so you might have a better chance of winning. Also, please post your gaming handle so I can pre-emptively blacklist you. Personally I never want to encounter you in the game.
94
Card Bugs / Re: Smugglers gain is mandatory
« Last post by jeebus on 20 June 2018, 06:28:44 PM »
I renmembered that there was basically the reverse problem: If exactly one gainable card was gained and one or more ungainables, the game incorrectly gave you the gainable card: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2588.0
That was not really the reverse problem, that was a bug. The reverse problem would be that the game lets you choose to do things that have no effect, which is the case with many cards today, for instance the mentioned Pilgrimage.

The main problem with allowing to pick the ungainable cards is the same as the reason that for "choose a card" effects a text box needs to be present, just in case you want to name Necropolis, a card from the Black Market deck or something similar. If your opponent gained a Zombie from the trash last turn, how should this be presented? All of this is not a problem for Pilgrimage, for example.

It makes much more sense IMO in that case to give the user the option to not gain a card (even if he may be unsure why that is the case when the card text gives no optionality).

ADDED: One idea just occured to me: If the player was given a box of cards to gain from, like for Tournament Prizes/Duchy, it would avoid this problem. But then I'd bet that complaints would come forward when players wanted to gain Spoils, Bats etc. and were left empty handed. And even that Tournament interface uses a 'Don't gain anything' button if either Prizes or Duchies have run out.
Good point that for Smugglers this is a bit more tricky than for other cards. But your idea is good: a box with all the cards, just like when you get to choose cards from trash or your deck or your discard pile.

I went through all the relevant cards that I could immediately identify as giving a choice. Here are the ones that currently "help" the player by giving a non-accurate choice of doing nothing:

Smugglers - "don't gain"
Graverobber - "don't gain", "don't trash"
Lurker - "don't trash"
Tournament - "don't gain"
Torturer - "don't discard"
Raze - "don't trash" (when Raze is already in the the trash)   

Here are the cards that give the choices that are literally on the card:

Native Village - always "set aside / pick up", even with no cards on mat or no cards to set aside
Quest - always "attack / 2 curses / 6 cards" (should at least not have "attack" of you don't have an attack, or "2 curses" if you don't have at least one, since then nothing will happen)
Governor - always "+3 cards / gain gold / trash & gain", even with no cards to draw or no cards in hand to trash or no golds in supply (of course these choices also entail effects for the other players - but even with no golds and no silvers, the choice to "gain gold" is given).
Hunting Grounds - always "gain 3 estates / gain duchy", even with no estates in supply (should say "don't gain duchy" then), or no duchies (should say "don't gain 3 estates")
Sprawling Castle - same as Hunting Grounds
Miser - always "copper to mat / profit", even with no copper in hand (except when you don't have copper in tavern either) (should say "don't profit" instead)
Changeling - lets you choose cards that you can't gain (except when there are only such cards) (those cards should be non-clickable with a button "don't gain")
Pilgrimage - lets you choose cards that you can't gain (those cards should be non-clickable)
Count - always "discard / topdeck / gain copper", even with no cards in hand (should say "don't gain copper")
Count (2) - always "+3 coins / trash hand / gain duchy", even with no cards in hand or no duchies in supply
Courtier - options with gold gain even with no golds in supply
Trusty Steed - options with silver gain even with no silvers in supply
Wild Hunt - always "cards / points", even when there are no estates in supply (should say "don't draw") (as an side, I think the options should be "+3 cards / gain estate"; "cards" doesn't signal draw, and you can gain an estate when there are no tokens on the pile)

Small Castle - this one has a bug (listed in the card bugs post)

So it's very inconsistent. I would say that instead of changing all the cards in the latter list, the better option is to change the first six cards so they always give you the same choices.

In any case there's no way of preventing players from doing everything that has unintended or unclear results if they don't know the rules. Ambassador of course lets you reveal anything; when you choose there is no mechanism that lets you know that you can't return a card. (Technically it has to let you reveal anything, but in practice there are virtually zero times that you want to reveal something for no other effect instead of just clicking "don't reveal".)
There is also nothing that prevents you from putting a BoM or Overlord on your Tavern mat. Both of these mistakes happen all the time, and there are others. (Edit: Prince!)
95
Connection Problems / Re: not loading games
« Last post by thales0 on 20 June 2018, 05:06:08 PM »
Danke nochmal!
Es wird an meiner Version liegen. Hatte bisher aber nicht die Muse zu upgraden. (Denn meine Version des Betriebssystems ist bereits so alt, das diese zu upgraden nicht so einfach ist, zumindest nicht so einfach, dass ich es t├Ąte.)
Habe mir deshalb zum spielen andere Computer genommen:)
96
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by DominionTroll on 20 June 2018, 08:49:44 AM »
https://medium.com/humane-tech/the-immortal-myths-about-online-abuse-a156e3370aee

Quote
Our communities are defined by the worst things that we permit to happen. What we allow tells the world who we are.

Online Dominion for some bizarre reason seems to have long been plagued by a small number of people who seem to enjoy trolling like crazy, even before this particular site. I don't get it. Anybody who sets out to make other users of the site feel bad or angry during their games by consistently trash talking strangers should be banned. It's not a "strategy", you're just trying to excuse the dopamine rush you get by being an antisocial asshole in the place where what you say has no permanent public record.

No.
It's just strategy, in fact I have apologized after winning many times if I got bad teplies in the chat window and realized that I was hurting somebody's feelings.
One time I even resigned because I felt I pushed too far.
And, since I have been banned for having used the F word, I would expect you being banned for calling me an asshole point blank without me having ever insulted you or something like that.
But I'm confident it won't happen.

Luckily enough I have been called polite by people who simply get things for what they are and don't make movies out of some sentences read on a forum.

EDIT: As for the link you posted, all that bunch of nonsense means you literally read NOTHING I've wrote because I clearly stated that I never trolled people for their gender, sexual orientation, race or something like that, which also can't be determined by a pure nickname (maybe gender, but maybe). For the rest of the link, alas, I say it's a bunch of nonsense victimism.

I must repeat myself (sigh): I only troll as a psychologic strategy to win a game. After the game is over, the trolling ends with that.
97
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by kieranmillar on 20 June 2018, 08:37:32 AM »
https://medium.com/humane-tech/the-immortal-myths-about-online-abuse-a156e3370aee

Quote
Our communities are defined by the worst things that we permit to happen. What we allow tells the world who we are.

Online Dominion for some bizarre reason seems to have long been plagued by a small number of people who seem to enjoy trolling like crazy, even before this particular site. I don't get it. Anybody who sets out to make other users of the site feel bad or angry during their games by consistently trash talking strangers should be banned. It's not a "strategy", you're just trying to excuse the dopamine rush you get by being an antisocial asshole in the place where what you say has no permanent public record.
98
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by DominionTroll on 20 June 2018, 06:54:46 AM »
Man you are the worst "troll" I have ever seen, you're grasping at straws and to boot you're not funny in the slightest

I am ok with not being funny because I have never had such intent.
Au contraire I would be worried if while speaking seriously somebody picked up me as funny.

And exactly where do I grasp at straws? Tell me, I'll be glad to prove you wrong.
99
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by Donald X. on 20 June 2018, 12:49:43 AM »
Anyone can play Dominion itself for free online, and can play with all the expansions just by clicking the button and waiting.

Making a physical game didn't require us to provide a free online game. Would you believe. And the online version is made by someone who has to eat like anyone else.
100
General Discussion / Re: Trolls
« Last post by josh bornstein on 20 June 2018, 12:41:01 AM »
...But he is pretty polite on this forum, and he states his position clearly.  I disagree entirely with his "pro-trolling in games" strategy, but I always appreciate people who are upfront and direct...even when I disagree with them.
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