Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Pricing and reimbursement  (Read 3196 times)

Offline EB20

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Pricing and reimbursement
« on: 03 January 2017, 06:40:41 AM »
I paid nearly $100 (US) for all the expansions not long ago with no expectation of ever having to pay again except perhaps to purchase future expansions.  How is it that I am supposed to be satisfied with a year subscription...particularly since as far as I can tell, I have lost the campaign mode, which was one of the primary ways that I enjoyed playing?  How can I receive my money back if I am not satisfied with my "benefit" for having previously made a purchase?

Offline Watno

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #1 on: 03 January 2017, 11:16:00 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.

Offline TwoWhiteBears

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #2 on: 04 January 2017, 12:35:31 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

Offline tufftaeh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #3 on: 04 January 2017, 01:03:27 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

Actually, they are doing something about that. Basically, they (and probably Rio Grande Games and Donald X.) donate $40 to everybody who had all sets bought on Goko/MF. Or even more value if you consider that all these users will be able to chose the permanent offline app instead as soon as that is available.

Why should Shuffle iT want to pay money back that someone has given to someone else, expecting to get something for it that was never promised? (If you think it was promised, read the terms of use of MF.) If you are unhappy how Rio Grande Games handled the online Dominion license, complain at Rio Grande Games. I actually think that it was not a good idea to ever allow a company with a non-permanent license to "sell" "permanent" accounts. For online play this should have always been a subscription model. Luckily, this situation cannot happen again because now everybody knows that they are paying for a limited time only.

Offline TwoWhiteBears

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #4 on: 04 January 2017, 01:35:05 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

Actually, they are doing something about that. Basically, they (and probably Rio Grande Games and Donald X.) donate $40 to everybody who had all sets bought on Goko/MF. Or even more value if you consider that all these users will be able to chose the permanent offline app instead as soon as that is available.

Why should Shuffle iT want to pay money back that someone has given to someone else, expecting to get something for it that was never promised? (If you think it was promised, read the terms of use of MF.) If you are unhappy how Rio Grande Games handled the online Dominion license, complain at Rio Grande Games. I actually think that it was not a good idea to ever allow a company with a non-permanent license to "sell" "permanent" accounts. For online play this should have always been a subscription model. Luckily, this situation cannot happen again because now everybody knows that they are paying for a limited time only.
I'm not arguing that they should or shouldn't. I'm just clarifying that they knew this would be an issue and took on the project anyway. It's a little disingenuous for them to act like they're in this totally unfair position and are completely powerless.

Offline Stef

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #5 on: 04 January 2017, 01:36:37 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

I don't understand why you think that. I would love to do something about that. Unfortunately, it involves building a time machine, going back 5 years in time, and warning Donald X. about this company making promises about his game beyond the scope of their licence.

Do you realize we got none of that money you paid? What would you have us do? Don't get me wrong, I do understand your pain. It totally sucks that you were promised something you're not getting. But I can't create it for you out of thin air. I don't think any of the people involved in the creation of this situation were evil or anything. The worst you can accuse them of is being a bit naive. And not just them, also the people paying that $90 and actually believing they could play Dominion Online forever (I was one of them).

Offline Angelbane

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #6 on: 04 January 2017, 03:54:46 AM »
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

I realize that Shuffle iT got NO money. However Shuffle iT DID get a customer base, albeit with baggage, and has to be careful of not pissing off. Until feature parity with the previous application has been reached Shuffle iT will not get a penny from me and probably not others either.

Key features for me:
Windows Client (web based does not count)
Campaign Mode
Hide VP Counters
Missing cards (there are several missing from base set alone)

NON SUBSCRIPTION MODE OF PURCHASE, If I wanted ongoing cost I would play MTG


I do not necessarily expect this to be free and would be willing to purchase the game again, at a significant discount relative to previous purchases (this is part of the baggage that Shuffle iT has to deal with IMO).


This being said this is not entirely the fault of Shuffle iT this is partially the fault of Rio Grande Games and Donald X who have set Shuffle iT up for an epic fail, at least in my book. However, Shuffle iT took on the project and now has to deal with it and complaining to us that no money was received for any purchases that we may have made is NOT going to help the situtation.

Offline jsh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #7 on: 04 January 2017, 03:58:43 AM »
The base set cards missing is not shuffle it's choice. Those cards were removed in the second edition and aren't meant to appear anymore.

Offline Angelbane

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #8 on: 04 January 2017, 04:13:08 AM »
The base set cards missing is not shuffle it's choice. Those cards were removed in the second edition and aren't meant to appear anymore.

Fair enough I was not aware of that (I have had the physical version for a VERY long time), I liked some of those cards.

Offline JW

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #9 on: 04 January 2017, 04:25:55 AM »
NON SUBSCRIPTION MODE OF PURCHASE, If I wanted ongoing cost I would play MTG

The great thing I see as a customer about the subscription mode of purchase is that customers know exactly what they are paying for. No one is being promised that the online game will be available many years in the future, which the developers shouldn't be able to promise because they can't guarantee that they will have the license at that time.
 
However, if you're willing to pay $200 upfront for a subscription lasting for the duration of their company supplying online Dominion, they might take you up on it.

Offline Jacob Marley

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #10 on: 04 January 2017, 04:33:33 AM »
NON SUBSCRIPTION MODE OF PURCHASE, If I wanted ongoing cost I would play MTG

In that case, I guess you will not be buying ever, since the Subscription mode is how they are doing business.  You don't like it, fine, but frankly, a lot of anger has been generated precisely because Goko/MF was NOT on a subscription basis.  If they had been, the people who had paid Goko/MF to pay wouldn't be mad, unless the price jumped a lot, and the people (like you presumably) who find subscriptions unacceptable would already have quit online Dominion. 

Nobody owes you an online implementation.  It exists because there are people willing to buy.  If you are not one of them, that's ok.  You don't owe ShuffleIt anything either.  In the end you have to decide if what is offered is worth your money.  Just don't expect them to change back to a business model that has already sunk not one but two companies just to satisfy you.

Offline TwoWhiteBears

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #11 on: 04 January 2017, 04:36:54 AM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

I don't understand why you think that. I would love to do something about that. Unfortunately, it involves building a time machine, going back 5 years in time, and warning Donald X. about this company making promises about his game beyond the scope of their licence.

Do you realize we got none of that money you paid? What would you have us do? Don't get me wrong, I do understand your pain. It totally sucks that you were promised something you're not getting. But I can't create it for you out of thin air. I don't think any of the people involved in the creation of this situation were evil or anything. The worst you can accuse them of is being a bit naive. And not just them, also the people paying that $90 and actually believing they could play Dominion Online forever (I was one of them).
It's nice that we get a free year of Dominion under your client.

Would have been nicer if the client was actually finished before the year started.

Offline Bludrok

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #12 on: 04 January 2017, 04:56:27 PM »
You payed money to Making Fun, whose license to online Dominion expired at the end of the last year. ShuffleIt can't do anything about that.
You guys agreed to make a new client knowing this would be an issue. You don't want to do anything about that.

I don't understand why you think that. I would love to do something about that. Unfortunately, it involves building a time machine, going back 5 years in time, and warning Donald X. about this company making promises about his game beyond the scope of their licence.

Do you realize we got none of that money you paid? What would you have us do? Don't get me wrong, I do understand your pain. It totally sucks that you were promised something you're not getting. But I can't create it for you out of thin air. I don't think any of the people involved in the creation of this situation were evil or anything. The worst you can accuse them of is being a bit naive. And not just them, also the people paying that $90 and actually believing they could play Dominion Online forever (I was one of them).

As a user who paid for a couple of online expansions, I disagree with your stance. You can easily grandfather the people who have already made purchases and allow them to have what they have already paid for. Now I understand you would not gain any money by this, but you would gain the trust of your users who, as long as you continue to publish good online content, are likely to make more purchases. Those users would also continue to pull in other, subscription based users to make the company profitable. This is just good customer service in my opinion.

In all honesty, I haven't played dominion online in a long time, and was only reminded about it when I received the email about the change. I came online to check it out, and based on what I see so far, will most likely not be back. It seems to me that many users will feel the same.

I do agree with others that if it was a subscription platform initially, this problem would not have occurred, however that is not how it was sold. Better be careful how you tread here, I could easily see this turning into a class action lawsuit.

Offline Jacob Marley

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #13 on: 04 January 2017, 06:59:04 PM »
I bought a car at Michaels Toyota in Fresno, CA years ago.  It broke down.  Now I should be able to go to Stevens Creek Toyota in San Jose and have them give me a new car since I paid for one and it no longer works.

This illustrates the flaw in your argument.  You didn't pay for the right to use Dominion for the rest of your life no matter who is providing it, you paid for the use of Goko/MK's Dominion product. That is now gone (broken down).  You didn't "already" pay for ShuffleIt's product, but they, in the interest of customer service, are giving you free use of their product for a limited time. 

We've all heard this argument before, and it stems from an emotional reaction where you feel that you should own the new product, not the legal reality.

Offline ThetaSigma12

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Pricing and reimbursement
« Reply #14 on: 04 January 2017, 09:29:34 PM »
I bought a car at Michaels Toyota in Fresno, CA years ago.  It broke down.  Now I should be able to go to Stevens Creek Toyota in San Jose and have them give me a new car since I paid for one and it no longer works.

This illustrates the flaw in your argument.  You didn't pay for the right to use Dominion for the rest of your life no matter who is providing it, you paid for the use of Goko/MK's Dominion product. That is now gone (broken down).  You didn't "already" pay for ShuffleIt's product, but they, in the interest of customer service, are giving you free use of their product for a limited time. 

We've all heard this argument before, and it stems from an emotional reaction where you feel that you should own the new product, not the legal reality.
This.