Sentry interface

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ElisabetK

Sentry is in the base set so this is a card that newcomers to this platform and/or the game itself will see.

Currently the interface pulls two cards, puts them in a box, and asks you to confirm trashing - it's not clear whether those cards are selected yet or not. Then, same process for discard, asking for confirmation, then that action ends automatically unless you still have two unselected cards, in which case you need to choose the order. I've messed this up as often as I've gotten it right.

A simpler and more intuitive interface would be to have the player "physically" move the two selected cards into the desired destination and then confirm all at once. Basically, have a slot for trash, slot for discard, and slot for topdeck. Each slot actually would have room for two cards, and if two cards are in the topdeck, it would be clearly indicated which is on top and which is on the bottom. The other option would be to have the player "physically" slide each card to its actual destination one at a time in which ever order they want, with no confirmation necessary. If they wanted a particular card on the top they would move it second, like in a real life game.

I don't know what other cards in other sets do that would affect how this is implemented, but I do see that Sentry's interface is confusing as it is. If it's important to always do the trashing before the discarding before the topdecking, then at the very least the dialog should show that you are on the first of those three steps when you start.

It's an interesting card, and it works as advertised, but it reminds me of my awful, awful kitchen range interface, where the buttons make sense to a programmer but not to a cook.

allanfieldhouse

The old version had some "drag the card" interfaces, and everyone really hated them. Buttons are the way to go.

I can think of some cool interface ideas for this, but unfortunately you actually have to do these things in the order that they're listed out, so you can't really create shortcuts. For example, some cards make you draw when they're trashed. Other cards gain you something when they're trashed. If you put cards back or discarded them before the trashing, it completely changes what would have happened.

Edit: although...I guess the system could still do everything in the right order for you. Things could technically happen in between your choices, but I can't think of a case where it would really matter.

ElisabetK

OK, thanks, I haven't seen those cards yet but it makes sense to force the user to make the choices in order.

Still, the current interface is needlessly confusing.

Would something like the following work?

Have the choices listed left to right, each with a couple of card slots below and a confirmation button. The user can select one or two (or zero) cards for trash, they'd move to the slot under confirm trash (perhaps with a trash icon) as they're selected, and the user confirms with the button. The cards move to Trash. Then the middle slot with "discard" works the same way with the remaining cards. If two cards are left, the Topdeck option would allow ordering, and would have a confirmation button too.

That would preserve the order, and still be clear and obvious (I think) to players.

Maybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

By the way, the current reordering does require card dragging. Maybe there's another way. I certainly wasn't a fan of dragging on MF but that was in part because it was not implemented consistently.

Edit: To be clear, there would be a confirmation button under each choice, so the user can see the options. Only the current choice's button would be active, so the user is forced, for instance, to trash first.

jsh

I don't find Sentry remotely confusing.

MVoltaire

I did and still sometimes do for a second until I remember how it works. If you don't know the interface it is really like "If I click confirm trashing will it trash my gold and silver?".

gkrieg

I think if they just put a number in parentheses next to the confirm, so it now said confirm trashing (0) to start, it would become much more intuitive.  Then increment the counter when you choose something so you understand what is going on. 

I agree that this was very confusing to me my first time, but now it is very quick and simple for me to use.

allanfieldhouse

Quote from: jsh on 07 January 2017, 07:13:07 PM
I don't find Sentry remotely confusing.

The only aspect that's really confusing is when it initially pops up and asks you to "confirm trashing" while showing two cards bordered in red. Intuitively that looks like you're trashing both. It only becomes obvious what's happening once you actually click on one of the cards. Just because a system can be figured out and used mistake-free doesn't mean that it shouldn't have been designed better in the first place.


The bigger issue for me is just how many clicks/confirmations it takes to resolve playing the card. What I'd prefer is one click to tell each card where to go and one click to confirm. So I guess that would be 3 buttons next to each card: trash, discard, topdeck.

The possible issue with this selection method is when there are on-trash or on-discard triggers. I think the system can handle the ordering fine though. Say you reveal a Cultist and a Tunnel. You click the Cultist's trash button, the Tunnel's discard button, and then confirm. The system trashes first, drawing you 3 (and forcing a reshuffle if necessary). Then it would discard the Tunnel and ask if you'd like to gain your gold.

Polk5440

Quote from: allanfieldhouse on 09 January 2017, 04:07:59 PM
It only becomes obvious what's happening once you actually click on one of the cards. Just because a system can be figured out and used mistake-free doesn't mean that it shouldn't have been designed better in the first place.

This.

LastFootnote

Quote from: ElisabetK on 07 January 2017, 06:33:53 PMMaybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

This. The button should say something like "Don't Trash" when there are zero cards selected. If you select a card, it changes to "Confirm Trashing".

gkrieg

Quote from: LastFootnote on 09 January 2017, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: ElisabetK on 07 January 2017, 06:33:53 PMMaybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

This. The button should say something like "Don't Trash" when there are zero cards selected. If you select a card, it changes to "Confirm Trashing".

+1

allanfieldhouse

Quote from: LastFootnote on 09 January 2017, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: ElisabetK on 07 January 2017, 06:33:53 PMMaybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

This. The button should say something like "Don't Trash" when there are zero cards selected. If you select a card, it changes to "Confirm Trashing".

This is the easiest and most obvious fix, and I think it should happen soon.

I'd still prefer my solution (described above) long-term though. It makes Sentry typically take 3 clicks to resolve. For example: trash, topdeck, confirm. Additionally, having all the decisions in one step dramatically reduces the cognitive load of the card (compared to a 3-step process with confirmations at each point).

gkrieg

Quote from: allanfieldhouse on 09 January 2017, 05:35:25 PM
Quote from: LastFootnote on 09 January 2017, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: ElisabetK on 07 January 2017, 06:33:53 PMMaybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

This. The button should say something like "Don't Trash" when there are zero cards selected. If you select a card, it changes to "Confirm Trashing".

This is the easiest and most obvious fix, and I think it should happen soon.

I'd still prefer my solution (described above) long-term though. It makes Sentry typically take 3 clicks to resolve. For example: trash, topdeck, confirm. Additionally, having all the decisions in one step dramatically reduces the cognitive load of the card (compared to a 3-step process with confirmations at each point).

Hearing what people have to say re: trusty steed and pawn makes me believe that some people would disagree with you.  They would much rather see all of the clicks, and make it simpler to understand.

allanfieldhouse

Quote from: gkrieg on 09 January 2017, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: allanfieldhouse on 09 January 2017, 05:35:25 PM
I'd still prefer my solution (described above) long-term though. It makes Sentry typically take 3 clicks to resolve. For example: trash, topdeck, confirm. Additionally, having all the decisions in one step dramatically reduces the cognitive load of the card (compared to a 3-step process with confirmations at each point).

Hearing what people have to say re: trusty steed and pawn makes me believe that some people would disagree with you.  They would much rather see all of the clicks, and make it simpler to understand.

I think I prefer the old 4-button interface for Pawn too. So I'm not just arguing for fewer clicks no matter what. I'm arguing for simpler/easier interfaces. "Fewer clicks" is often a byproduct of a system that's easy to use.

yed

Quote from: gkrieg on 09 January 2017, 05:29:48 PM
Quote from: LastFootnote on 09 January 2017, 05:01:07 PM
Quote from: ElisabetK on 07 January 2017, 06:33:53 PMMaybe put in some sort of "Don't trash any cards" message on the confirmation button if zero cards are chosen, just to be clear.

This. The button should say something like "Don't Trash" when there are zero cards selected. If you select a card, it changes to "Confirm Trashing".

+1
+1

randomjoyz

it's kind of weird to click "confirm trashing" when I'm not trashing anything. the best way for this to work would be:

-window shows up with 2 cards, button next to it says "don't trash"
you then can ether:
-click "don't trash" at which point you proceed to the discard stage, which would work the same as the trash stage.
-click on one or both of the cards, at which point the button would change to say confirm trashing, and another button would show up that says undo.