Show all descriptions when one pile contains more than one kind of card

[billyswong]

Example1: For splits, show both of them when right clicking the pile
Example2: For prizes, show all 5 of them when right clicking

The current behaviour of only showing trusty steed whenever right clicking the prize pile is... strange. Implementing a version of it for the black market deck may be even a rule requirement, as said in http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Black_Market that "All players can see which cards are placed in the Black Market deck before the game begins."

[Watno]

We're using changed rules for the Black Market, not being able to see what's in it is intended.

Agreed on the other piles though.

[Icehawk78]

Having looked at the client side code recently, it looks like this is in progress and might be implemented soon, as there's a decent amount of coffee related to getting "stack hints" ("card hints" is what the code is calling when you right click on a card) and is just not finished yet, rather than not having even been started.

[Ingix]

There a few additional things to consider.

1) A pile with different cards in them can ultimately contain them in any order. With Ambassador you could get a split pile like Encampment/Plunder in reverse order or in alternating order or something similar. In addition, for the split piles this is open information. So ultimately, when you implement an interface that allows a player to inspect any pile, you will need to come up with a way to show that this pile has for example 2 Encampments on top, followed by 3 Plunders, followed by 2 Encampments and one final Plunder.

2) For Knights and Ruins the order the cards are in is not open information. For Knights it is at least known what cards the pile started with, but for Ruins even that is not known if you play with less than 6 players.

So I think there are 2 distinct questions a player can ask the game, and they need to be answered differently, although they can share UI:

A) What is the contents of a pile (not Knights/Ruins/Black Market pile) right now (with possible answers as easy as  "2 Provinces" or as complicated as I indicated in 1) above)?

B) What cards where in this pile (not Black Market pile) at the beginning of the game? This should indicate the original composition with the exception that for the Ruins pile the 5 possible Ruins should be shown, not taking into account that a given Ruin may not actually be in the game.

[santamonica811]

We're using changed rules for the Black Market, not being able to see what's in it is intended.

Agreed on the other piles though.

This is an unexpected approach, as it makes the game more luck and less skill.  It's been my observation that adding complexity and variety to new cards was, in part, to reward strategic planning (and, obviously, to maintain interest in the game, create additional revenue, etc).  If you have no idea what is in Black Market, then it's a real crap-shoot, and you're almost forced to buy the card, just in case . . .

Having said that; I was unable to ever view the BM pile at the old site, and it didn't ruin the games for me.  But I always thought that the inability to view was a software bug, and not the intended result.  I'll be interested in hearing feedback from more-experienced players--do they see this as a good or a bad decision?

[ffejselur]

Having said that; I was unable to ever view the BM pile at the old site, and it didn't ruin the games for me.  But I always thought that the inability to view was a software bug, and not the intended result.  I'll be interested in hearing feedback from more-experienced players--do they see this as a good or a bad decision?

You're supposed to know what collection of cards was chosen to be shuffled into the Black Market deck, NOT the order of how the shuffle came out. Actually at MF you could see what cards were chosen for the BM deck by looking at the top of the log, where they were listed. Maybe Si will do this someday, but I'm guessing it's nowhere near the top of the priority list.

[Watno]

We're using changed rules for the Black Market, not being able to see what's in it is intended.

Agreed on the other piles though.

This is an unexpected approach, as it makes the game more luck and less skill.  It's been my observation that adding complexity and variety to new cards was, in part, to reward strategic planning (and, obviously, to maintain interest in the game, create additional revenue, etc).  If you have no idea what is in Black Market, then it's a real crap-shoot, and you're almost forced to buy the card, just in case . . .

Having said that; I was unable to ever view the BM pile at the old site, and it didn't ruin the games for me.  But I always thought that the inability to view was a software bug, and not the intended result.  I'll be interested in hearing feedback from more-experienced players--do they see this as a good or a bad decision?

Here there are some comments by one of the developers (who is coincidentally also a very high level player).

[yed]

Here there are some comments by one of the developers (who is coincidentally also a very high level player).

Better link: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16193.msg634698#msg634698
Watno's link points to reply.

[Watno]

Oops, fixed

[allanfieldhouse]

I think the current rules for the BM deck are a great compromise. Read through that linked thread for all of the varying opinions.

The biggest complaint that seems valid to me is the "it reduces strategy by not knowing what's in there" line of reasoning. If Stef is to be believed for Dominion strategy advice (spoiler: he probably should be), that's not an actual problem.

2) Your decision to go for the Black Market or not should not depend on its content, period. This has nothing to do with card or program design, just some strategical advice. Look at the rest of the kingdom; if you can build an engine go for Black Market - always.