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Author Topic: Communication about releases & future plans  (Read 3618 times)

Offline AdamH

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Communication about releases & future plans
« on: 19 January 2017, 01:21:35 PM »
When are we going to have all of the cards implemented? This includes fixing all of the cards that require you to name a card since they're unplayable at this point, and we need a way to view the Journey Token at any time.

The software was released almost three weeks ago and at a bare minimum it should have been completely implemented by that point: this isn't even the top priority.

New releases are getting less frequent and this doesn't appear to be on anyone's radar. I kind of doubt this is ever going to be finished at this point.

Offline Lotoreo

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #1 on: 19 January 2017, 02:51:12 PM »
I would assume that you got that the wrong way around.
I guess that fewer small releases are just a hint that a bigger release is upcomeing.


(But then again, with all the negative energy you are spreading, I would understand them not finishing the game. But that is out of topic.)

Offline AdamH

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #2 on: 19 January 2017, 03:00:06 PM »
I will admit that my "negative energy" is comparatively negative to a lot of what is being spread around here. I'll just say that I think a lot of people are being overly optimistic. I'm only going off of what I have, which is the released software, which doesn't fully implement the game, and the fact that all of these updates have been made to features that really should be less important.

All someone needs to say is "yes we have a bigger release coming up" -- instead all I've heard is "I don't like your tone/energy Adam". It's text, I have typed words that express thoughts and nothing more, and asked a legitimate question. Instead of giving me an actual response to my question I have people complaining about what's in between the words I've typed.

So is there a bigger release coming up?

Offline Ingix

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #3 on: 19 January 2017, 03:51:12 PM »
I'm with Adam that communication of what's to come is suboptimal. For example, the sticky post "Missing Features" from Stef in "Feature Requests" is from December 10th, that is a time when the game was still in beta. The major complaints now might warrant a different prioritization than what was given at that time. Players probably also don't care that much about what's coming this year. They might care more about what's coming next week and/or next month.

Unfortunately there are so many different problems at the moment (mobile client, log problems, UI problems for different cards, no (visible) ratings, AI doing 'stupid' things with certain cards, standalone version) that I assume any progress will only affect one are two areas, and players who are not concerned with those areas will see no progress (a player playing against AI will not care that much about a rating, and a player playing against humans will not care about AI improvements, for example).


So I still hope for improvements, but I'm less optimistic about the game getting better soon than I was a week or two before.



Offline yed

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #4 on: 19 January 2017, 04:42:14 PM »
Stef on Discord Today at 12:45 AM #general-chatter (https://discord.gg/BJZ62hZ):
Quote
currently we're working on building a rating system, and providing a way for people to look at old logs

Offline JunkDealer

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #5 on: 19 January 2017, 05:02:28 PM »
Stef on Discord Today at 12:45 AM #general-chatter (https://discord.gg/BJZ62hZ):
Quote
currently we're working on building a rating system, and providing a way for people to look at old logs

I find it interesting that basically the same discussion that I was involved with on discord broke out here.  I don't know if the preceding posts were because of the discussion I had on discord or if it's just a weird coincidence that they took place at roughly the same time.  I wasn't going to post it here, but since yed only provided part of the conversation I now feel the full context could be useful to some of the people posting in the forum who might not see the discord discussion.  If for no other reason then to prevent duplication of messages (another area I feel this forum could use help with... strong moderators that merge/link/lock duplicate conversations, but I digress...)

Anyhow, here is the full text of the conversation.  I've put it in code blocks since it is somewhat lengthy.  I note that at one point Stef indicated that they won't commit to schedules "at least not yet" so I am hopeful that they may at some point understand and accept that some customers want to be kept well informed and that doing so while more work also prevents other work. (like responding to these types of comments over and over)


Code: [Select]
LaLight - Yesterday at 4:25 PM
well.. we will definitely improve the bot. Just not right now. He sometimes is not as bad as it seems ;)

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Oh for sure.  I've been beaten several times.  Usually because I'm focussed on my own stuff and don't realize they've jumped into points mode until too late.  I blame part of that on the lack of visual and audio clues that I grew used to with the MF version.  Retraining myself to actually look at the logs, which to me is time consuming and unideal, but it is what it is.
Improvements are coming and I appreciate that.  I just wish they were a bit faster coming.  Again I think that stems from thinking much of what I was expecting was going to be ready at launch.  I was quite surprised at the stuff not delivered at that point.
Don't get me wrong.  There's a lot of potential here, just wasn't where my expectations were sitting so I'm having to reframe things.  I'd encourage you all to keep providing information.  ie) Control the message.  The reality is in the absence of information people create misinformation.  Ideally I'd love to see actually ETA dates on the features list so that people at least have a vague idea of when things are coming.  If dates need to be adjusted then explain that and adjust them, but for me at least, having no dates is worse.

Stef - Yesterday at 4:36 PM
sorry if you feel that way, but we won't commit to schedules
at least not right now

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:41 PM
I think that's a mistake.  Again I'm not asking for commitments, but forecasts.  It's disappointing to hear that you know there are issues and features, but not provide even rough guidance (aside from sometime in 2017) for stuff that again perhaps mistakenly people thought would be there at launch.  That's what I mean about controlling the message.  I think a lot of frustrations expressed can be countered with well placed dialogue.  Absence of that always causes the crazies (like me) to assume the worst.  Ultimately though it's your company and that's just my opinion, but it's one that I've expressed to many companies.  Take 7 Wonders for example that's been in beta almost 2 years with no communication.  Or Nancy Drew who has had their latest game in development with almost no communication for 2 years.  In both of those cases you have loyal people literally switching to trash talking.  The more information you provide the more you placate people like me.  Knowing that you are currently working on x and forecast it to be ready by y.  Then knowing you hit roadblock z and have to shift the forecast to a tells me that you care about me as a customer.  Silence does the opposite.  Anyhow, thanks for listening and responding.  I do appreciate the hard work you are doing.
func_door - Yesterday at 4:45 PM
there's a balance to be made in placating people with communication and communicating things that may not end up being accurate

Stef - Yesterday at 4:45 PM
but... we're not silent at all
currently we're working on building a rating system, and providing a way for people to look at old logs
we've also been quite descriptive of the progress made the first 20 days of this year
it's just... I enjoy making new stuff a lot more then talking about why/what/when is coming
and especially why what isn't there yet
you're just turning 20 days into 2 years now... that seems a bit premature

Philip - Yesterday at 4:47 PM
" The more information you provide the more you placate people like me. Knowing that you are currently working on x and forecast it to be ready by y. Then knowing you hit roadblock z and have to shift the forecast to a tells me that you care about me as a customer."

My take: That is a lot of work. And the time we spend doing that is time we can't spend coding. In the end it's far better to promise little and deliver a lot than the other way around.
Stef - Yesterday at 4:47 PM
very possibly your expectations of what would be finished at launch would have been very realistic if most of the money that users spend on Dominion in the past years would have ended up with us. But alack, it did not.

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Except that in my mind what was promised at launch wasn't delivered and that does translate into more than just 20 days.  Since what I was expecting at launch wasn't there I then forecast that out to your list of priorities and have to wonder if you'll even get those done in 2017.  This is my point.  Without information people like me fill there head based on prior experience.  It's not uncommon for software companies to miss deadlines (by a lot).... but whenever those misses are communicated they are impacted by negative press and thoughts a lot less.  You seem to have a pretty loyal following I wouldn't be surprised if some of them wouldn't be willing to help you communicate more.
Again I realize that perhaps my expectations of the launch were completely unrealistic, but there was nothing obvious that helped me frame them better.  Managing people's expectations helps manage frustrations and complaints.  That's what communication is all about.  Yes, it's a pain and takes away from what you really want to do, but that's what differentiates good companies from great companies.  They control their message.  Anyhow.... I'm probably not changing any minds here so again appreciate you listening and responding.  Keep up the hard work!

Stef - Yesterday at 4:55 PM
I think the best thing we can do is just show progress
if we manage that, people will assume progress will continue
and rightfully so
that would beat any amount of promisses & ETAs

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:57 PM
AGain I disagree.  The progress you've made in the last 20 days isn't insignificant, but I haven't seen anything of substance (no offense meant.... bugs are exceptionally time consuming).  Forecasts help frame expectations.  Right now you have no frame for people to judge against except the initial launch.... but here I am circling back to my original expectations blah blah blah..... :smiley:

Stef - Yesterday at 4:59 PM
Let's just both hope you'll be positively surprised 3 months from now

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 5:01 PM
I'm hoping so too. :smiley:
Best of luck!

Offline tufftaeh

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Re: Communication about releases & future plans
« Reply #6 on: 19 January 2017, 06:18:28 PM »
I will admit that my "negative energy" is comparatively negative to a lot of what is being spread around here. I'll just say that I think a lot of people are being overly optimistic. I'm only going off of what I have, which is the released software, which doesn't fully implement the game, and the fact that all of these updates have been made to features that really should be less important.
I totally understand that you wish that the issues which are most important for you personally should be fixed first. I don't care that much either about platforms that I don't play on, and as I got my transfer mail without any problem and as could pay in the Store, fixing all this was not important for me. It might be slightly different from the point of view of the company offering this online implementation. They need to try to make as many users as happy as possible and set their priorities accordingly, which might result in a different sequence from the one you and I might prefer. By the way, I, personally, feel that making the lobby usable (if still not great) was more important than Inheritance and Stash. But now I think that fixing the naming issue should be indeed one of the top priorit