Resigning during opponents' turn

[zeruf]

I feel like the bot thing is the best solution, since the problem seems to be someone quitting while you're in the middle of something. Since you are specifically talking about being able to resign on your opponent's turn, correct me if I'm wrong, but for you someone resigning during your turn without warning is the equivalent of your engine automatically shutting off and you stopping when you're in the middle of a street race because your opponent gave up. You might be thinking 'I wonder if I can draw my deck this turn' and just before you find out... it's over. I can understand how some people think that way and are disappointed by that situation but personally I'm just not one of those people.

[twasa]

jeebus,

Nobody, including me, would keep inviting a player in real life when they consistently stop playing early, for whatever reason. The investment in time and effort is just too much.

Playing online, it doesn't bother me at all. It is easy to find other players interested in playing a few games.

[jeebus]

Nobody, including me, would keep inviting a player in real life when they consistently stop playing early, for whatever reason. The investment in time and effort is just too much.

Great, then you do agree with my original point.

And you agree about the social contract. Actually, it even exists online, even with the resign button. If I resign 50% of the time on turn 6 when we play, no explanation given, you would pretty soon want to blacklist me. So even online, even though some of us don't expect an explanation, we do expect that there is a legitimate reason.

[twasa]

No, why would I blacklist you? The only players I'd ever blacklist would be those with sexist or racist usernames (in my estimation) or those who slow play me. I've even gotten used to ignoring those who trash talk you in the chat when they're losing. I'd happily keep playing you if you keep on resigning early.

[Mike Thicke]

And you agree about the social contract. Actually, it even exists online, even with the resign button. If I resign 50% of the time on turn 6 when we play, no explanation given, you would pretty soon want to blacklist me. So even online, even though some of us don't expect an explanation, we do expect that there is a legitimate reason.

This whole thread is absurd. If I screw up the opening in chess and put myself in a losing position against a competent opponent, I'm not going to sit around for 30 minutes waiting for my inevitable loss. I'm going to resign and move on to the next game. I can see how you might derive some enjoyment from gradually exploiting your advantage over many turns picking off my pieces one-by-one, but what incentive do I have to participate in that? I'm not a masochist.

Similarly, in Dominion while I can see how you might enjoy playing out your engine over several turns after you gain an insurmountable lead, what incentive do I have to participate? Why should I suffer for 10 more minutes while you parade to victory? Accept your victory and move on. Resigning is never unsportsmanlike.

[SkyHard]

an insurmountable lead, what incentive do I have to participate?

What is insurmountable? And how can you tell?

Of course, it is your choice. I am just wondering.

[jsh]

an insurmountable lead, what incentive do I have to participate?

What is insurmountable? And how can you tell?

Of course, it is your choice. I am just wondering.

There are plenty of cases where one can easily tell when they have no chance of winning. One of the simplest is if there are literally not enough points left in the supply for the losing player to catch up. When this happens to me, I always resign. The rest of the game is a waste of time by any metric.

There are also cases in which the opponent simply recognized a possible deck you didn't, and that deck has so much more pile control and economy that you stand no chance of winning unless they misplay. Sure, you can hold out hope that they do, but sometimes I prefer to give my opponent the benefit of a doubt in those cases since I wouldn't feel great about winning such a game anyway.

You also might choose to resign if you're being Possessed multiple times each turn or facing an extremely click-heavy, but superior, deck. It's completely reasonable to just accept defeat.

There are other cases; these are just off the top of my head.

[AdamH]

Put me in the category of not sure why this debate is even taking place.

The comparison to IRL board games is something I don't think applies to the online game. In tabletop games people don't just disappear in the middle of something, but if someone's power/internet goes out that's basically what happens online. There has to be a graceful way of handling it that doesn't involve the player who did nothing wrong waiting around forever in hopes of their opponent coming back.

Providing the opponent a graceful way of telling the client that they are peacing out and not returning to the game is a really obvious thing that needs to exist. If there are any restrictions placed on this, the opponent is just going to pull the plug if they want out, so there should be no restrictions on this. That graceful thing is called the resign button.

Whatever problems people have with etiquette on resigning are not fixed by restricting when/how people can resign, because they can just pull the plug and leave, which causes all the same issues we had with resigning, only now you have to wait 4 minutes because you took away the opponent's ability to tell you they're not coming back.

[SkyHard]

Thanks jsh. That does make sense. For some a 3/4 split against a 5/2 is already enough. Well, everyone has his own rules as to what is insurmountable. :-/

@AdamH: I am not debating the resign button - which I think is important. I just want to understand.

[AdamH]

Sure, I feel you. I wasn't weighing in on that part of the debate. I'll never get mad at anyone for resigning and in most cases I'll ask for permission before I resign. But that's just me.

[Cave-O-Sapien]

I wish this forum had a means of providing thumbs ups. Lots of good discussion and great points being made here by AdamH, jsh, Mike Thicke and others.

[AdamH]

I also wish this forum had a way of giving thumbs-ups. Some great comments being made by Cave-O-Sapien!

And he even did it on reply #55. Could it get better?

:-P

[Jacob Marley]

The discussion of the ethics of resigning is one that we may never completely agree on, and from a developer perspective is irrelevant since I don't see any way they remove the resign button in response to those who don't like it.

What we can profitably discuss is the mechanics of how resign works.  I see three options:
1.  As currently implemented
2.  Resign only allowed during your turn
3.  Resign any time, but put up a text box saying "Game Ends:  Player ___ Resigns" and you click "Ok" before going to the score screen. 

I favor 3.  That way as the non-resigning player, you know why the game ended, and can have some closure. 

In fact, having the same box pop up for all game ending events seems like a good idea.  For instance, "Game Ends:   Province pile empty" or "Game Ends:  Three piles empty"

[AdamH]

Ethics or not, option 2 is not viable for the reasons I stated above. People will leave the game whenever they want, and if they can't click a resign button, they will just close the window. Any restrictions on when people are allowed to resign will just make things worse.

[SkyHard]

What do you need the text box for? On the end screen you will see that the other player resigned.

Option 2 is indeed not viable.