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Author Topic: Noble Brigand order  (Read 165 times)

Offline werothegreat

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Noble Brigand order
« on: 26 April 2017, 08:10:02 pm »
#3117181 on tokyo

Opponent played Noble Brigand, revealing one of my Tunnels.  I also had a Trader in hand.  By the text on NB, I should have been asked to reveal the Tunnel first, since that gets discarded before I am made to gain a Copper.  However, I was asked to reveal Trader first, gained a Silver (which should have covered up my Tunnel and lost track of it), and then was asked to reveal my Tunnel.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #1 on: 26 April 2017, 11:20:09 pm »
I think you are correct. OTOH, what happened was in summary what have should have happened: You gained a Gold via Tunnel and replaced the Copper-gain with a Silver-gain, just in the incorrect order.

Offline jeebus

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #2 on: 27 April 2017, 11:41:58 pm »
I agree. It seems to be two separate bugs then. If you gain a Copper first, as you say the Tunnel is lost track of. So the two bugs in this case make it correct in summary, but might also affect other card interations. EDIT: Even if you gain a Copper on top of the Tunnel, the tunnel can still be revealed. Lose-track only has to do with moving, not revealing.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #3 on: 28 April 2017, 06:51:41 pm »
I have to confess that I don't fully understand the lost track rules with respect to discards. How can I discard say 4 cards "as a pack" to Cellar and still be able to reveal any Tunnels that are not at the top, but in this case one Copper on top of the Tunnel makes it "unusable".

Offline jeebus

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #4 on: 28 April 2017, 08:17:09 pm »
As you correctly observe, Tunnels are revealed after all discarded cards are in the discard pile. However, revealing them doesn't make them move. They are still right there in your discard pile, just as a card revealed from your hand is still in your hand. And lose-track only applies to moving cards.

There is still the question of how you can reveal Tunnels that are covered up. There have been some discussions in the strategy forums about this.
Donald said this: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7095.msg200145#msg200145

Offline jeebus

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #5 on: 28 April 2017, 09:30:06 pm »
Avtually this thread has a lot more Tunnel discussion, if you're so inclined: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/854026/playing-multiple-reaction-cards/

Summary: You discard x Tunnels, putting them all in discard, then reveal the first Tunnel from the discard and putting it back again, gaining a Gold on top of discard, then reveal the next Tunnel, etc. So you have to know which Tunnel (from the card position) you have already revealed. If you do it this (technically correct) way in practice, it's possible to cheat, because you're not required to show the cards you're discarding, just the top one (and the number), so you could try to reveal the same Tunnel several times, since it could be difficult for the other players to see exactly where in your discard pile you're pulling the card from. However, you're not required to conceal all the cards you're discarding, so in the case of Tunnel, you could show how many Tunnels you're discarding as you're discarding them, then reveal that many from the discard pile. Of course in practice, this is done by just flashing all the Tunnels as you discard them and count that as also revealing them, so there is no problem.

Offline werothegreat

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Re: Noble Brigand order
« Reply #6 on: 28 April 2017, 11:25:26 pm »
Okay, so the Tunnel is working as intended.  That still leaves the (somewhat pedantic) problem of things happening in the right order.  The Tunnel gets discarded (and should be revealed) before the Copper is gained.