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Author Topic: Rude player warning  (Read 925 times)

Offline aramathis

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Rude player warning
« on: 04 May 2017, 08:48:51 PM »
Edit by Stef: removed this post, because public name & shame is not something I believe in.

Offline jsh

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2017, 10:23:29 PM »
Edit by Stef: removed this post, because public name & shame is not something I believe in.

Offline mrfiat

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #2 on: 05 May 2017, 04:32:14 PM »
Edit by Stef: removed this post, because public name & shame is not something I believe in.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #3 on: 05 May 2017, 04:45:47 PM »
I think that these users should be reported, yes. I do not think that the method of reporting these players should be public.

I personally don't like the idea of group blacklists (though I understand some people do and there's nothing to stop them from making and using those blacklists), but I especially don't like the idea of a group blacklist that's supported officially in any way. Posting about it on these forums seems over the line to me.

This topic has been discussed many times in many places. I'm not gonna take the time to look it up right now but if desired I can do that (I also can't promise that I'll be quick about it, sorry :-( )


Where can I report people that are rude and slow play on purpose when losing.  I'm spending an hour on a game with user Garicup.  He was mad because I would not allow him to undo a move.  Undo is optional.  He is being very rude as well.

Sending a PM Stef on these forums is the preferred method of reporting stuff like this (I think).

Offline Jacob Marley

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #4 on: 05 May 2017, 06:24:11 PM »
I think that these users should be reported, yes. I do not think that the method of reporting these players should be public.

I personally don't like the idea of group blacklists (though I understand some people do and there's nothing to stop them from making and using those blacklists), but I especially don't like the idea of a group blacklist that's supported officially in any way. Posting about it on these forums seems over the line to me.

This topic has been discussed many times in many places. I'm not gonna take the time to look it up right now but if desired I can do that (I also can't promise that I'll be quick about it, sorry :-( )


Where can I report people that are rude and slow play on purpose when losing.  I'm spending an hour on a game with user Garicup.  He was mad because I would not allow him to undo a move.  Undo is optional.  He is being very rude as well.

Sending a PM Stef on these forums is the preferred method of reporting stuff like this (I think).

Hear, Hear!  +1

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #5 on: 05 May 2017, 09:49:20 PM »
Where can I report people that are rude and slow play on purpose when losing.  I'm spending an hour on a game with user Garicup.  He was mad because I would not allow him to undo a move.  Undo is optional.  He is being very rude as well.
Slow playing is still playing within the rules, unfortunate as that is.  This is an issue with game design and allowing too much time per turn.  5 minutes +5 seconds per action taken would drastically improve the slow-playing situation.

Abusive chat on the otherhand should definitely be reportable/ban worthy.  Also an ignore chat function would be nice to mitigate this.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #6 on: 05 May 2017, 11:39:30 PM »
This is an issue with game design and allowing too much time per turn.  5 minutes +5 seconds per action taken would drastically improve the slow-playing situation.

Relevant: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1616.0

I think the answer is the blacklist feature. Restricting the time people have to act in any way is pretty dangerous; a lot of thought should go into it before any change is made.

Offline JW

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #7 on: 06 May 2017, 12:05:27 AM »
Slow playing is still playing within the rules, unfortunate as that is.  This is an issue with game design and allowing too much time per turn.  5 minutes +5 seconds per action taken would drastically improve the slow-playing situation.

Here's ShuffleIT's take:
* I strongly dislike "public name & shame". Please don't do it. For now it will just stay with "strongly dislike", but once we manage to build the options that allow you to avoid certain players in game, we'll actually start removing/redacting those posts. If you have a problem with a specific user, send a PM to one of the moderators.

* "Playing slow" and "Slowplaying" are fundamentally different things. The first may be related to being unfamiliar with cards, thorough analysis or just a general slower pace. While this can cause annoyance and thus be a problem, the solution will be a bit complicated. We will introduce the option to play timed games at some point. Until that day, please try to be friendly to each other and keep in mind that your opponent is probably not doing this by choice.

Slowplaying is about intentionally delaying your plays, waiting minutes between playing coppers, in the hopes that your opponent resigns or gets annoyed. This I consider a mental illness, and we will simply not tolerate it. As soon as I'm convinced you're doing this, you're banned.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #8 on: 06 May 2017, 12:46:50 AM »
Thanks for the link, I read the whole thread.  You are approaching the situation from an idealogical perspective which I respect, but we really need to be more pragmatic.

The current compromise between allowing players to abuse the clock and allowing enough time for perfect decision making is extremely out of whack.  Allowing a 5 hour game with base set cards alone is simply unacceptable.  And you think it's not generous enough?  Do we need days so we can hand write algorithms and return with our next action?

I do concede that certain kingdoms will probably require more time to play properly (on a competitive level) than I would like to allow for an all-purpose rated match.  But again, there has to be a compromise.  A blacklist is not an elegant solution, on the contrary it's quite blunt and dodges the problem altogether.  So does banning people for playing within the rules of the game.  Let that sink in a bit.  Slow-rolling is playing within the rules of the game.  I can't see how that is acceptable.  Nor do I see how a ban is justified.  There has to be a compromise.  There were a lot of good ideas on that other thread and we can re-litigate those if need be. 

Of course the clock should be customizable for pre-made games so that tournament players can have all the time they need.  The clock need only apply to matched and rated games.

One more point...

An entire thesis could be written on the optimal play for any given kingdom.  That's what makes dominion a beautiful game.  Which by an idealog's logic would imply that we need infinite time otherwise we are limiting the player's potential.  This of course would result in many games being resolved by who can leave their browser open longest... 

Every kingdom is extremely complicated and ungodly lengths of time taken could be justified in making what others would consider simple decisions.  To put it in words more elegant than mine, "AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT"


Offline tufftaeh

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #9 on: 06 May 2017, 02:29:25 AM »
The pragmatic way is blacklisting intentionally slowplaying sociopaths. It's even better when they are eventually banned completely, but that might take some time, so I'm very happy to have the option to simply blacklist them until then.

Stef said:
Quote
Slowplaying is about intentionally delaying your plays, waiting minutes between playing coppers, in the hopes that your opponent resigns or gets annoyed. This I consider a mental illness, and we will simply not tolerate it. As soon as I'm convinced you're doing this, you're banned.

For me, this means that slowplaying is not within the rules of the game, similar as insults in the chat. You seem to use a different definition.

Your suggested time limit might be perfect for your personal preferred playing speed but not for all players. I'd rather have an option to select "fast"/"medium"/"slow" than an enforced "average" speed for all automatched games.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #10 on: 06 May 2017, 03:00:17 AM »
You can't ban all the slow-rollers.  If the ability to slow-roll is there, there will always be slow-rollers at a certain frequency.  You can try to ban them but keep in mind, these people have hours and hours to spend slow-rolling, so they can just as easily make a new account and slow-roll again.  Don't underestimate a troll's persistence.

The problem isn't the slow-rollers.  It's the ability to slow-roll.

There's no disclaimer within the game UI that says slow-rolling isn't allowed.  Therefore it is well within the rules.  Posting on the forum that it is a ban-able offense doesn't count if the vast majority of players never visit the forum.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #11 on: 06 May 2017, 04:07:32 AM »
That doesn't mean they're right.  Including an in-game disclaimer that slow-rolling will result in bans would be a good start.  It's currently the most effective way to get wins hands down.  If you're incentivizing players to do something, then banning them for it without warning, is that right?  At least a disclaimer would warn them preemptively and possibly scare some of them off.

Offline gloures

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #12 on: 06 May 2017, 04:52:06 AM »
Some things do not need a disclaimer for people to know it´s wrong and that it´s a bannable offense. Just the smallest bit of common sense and a basic degree of human decency is enough.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #13 on: 06 May 2017, 05:11:05 AM »
I could argue that the longer I spend taking my turn, the more time I have to think and the more likely I am to make the optimal choice.  Therefore I will always take the maximum amount of time that the rules allow.  When do you draw the line and call it abuse if it's well within the rules and I'm simply exercising my right to taking my time?

This hypothetical sounds silly, but it is rationally sound and I use it as an example to point out that the rules themselves are silly.  Rules are very important in games.  If there is no rule limiting the time to a reasonable amount, then it is simply flawed.  The tabletop version has no time limit, sure.  They are assuming that you aren't going to play against people who troll you.  On the internet, you will inevitably be faced with trolls, so you have to control them with explicit rules.  This seems so obvious to me from a design perspective.

Offline Stef

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Re: Rude player warning
« Reply #14 on: 06 May 2017, 12:20:50 PM »
I could argue that the longer I spend taking my turn, the more time I have to think and the more likely I am to make the optimal choice.  Therefore I will always take the maximum amount of time that the rules allow.  When do you draw the line and call it abuse if it's well within the rules and I'm simply exercising my right to taking my time?

It's not withing the rules to slowroll.

Not on this site, as I already stated it has been and will continue to be grounds for banning.

Not in the rest of life either. It's about an unwritten contract between all human beings - if you want to have fun together, like playing a game, then you will have to take each others feelings into account. If you haven't already learned that from the rest of life, it's a big problem. Not the kind of problem that gets solved with an additional rule.