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Author Topic: Sore losers  (Read 1723 times)

Offline sisif

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Sore losers
« on: 08 May 2017, 05:26:50 PM »
Quote
--------:  nice drawing schlub
--------:  really really dumb laugh
--------:  jsut total outdraw
--------left the table.

I see there is a new trend for sore losers. Blame the luck on the opponent and then close the browser tab, to force your opponent to wait for 5 minutes until they can be removed from the game.

Edit: I removed the names (Stef)

Offline AdamH

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #1 on: 08 May 2017, 05:30:24 PM »
http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1793.msg6504#msg6504

Edit: posts like these that mention names really should be removed from these forums. There needs to be a way to easily report these people and it needs to be private.

Offline Stef

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #2 on: 08 May 2017, 05:37:13 PM »
Edit: posts like these that mention names really should be removed from these forums. There needs to be a way to easily report these people and it needs to be private.

Yes I agree, I redacted the post. I'll also ask the other mods to remove or redact posts that explicitly mention people.
You can report people privately by sending a PM to one of the moderators or administrators on this forum.

I hate people misbehaving, but I don't believe in public name & shame at all.

Offline sisif

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #3 on: 08 May 2017, 05:40:03 PM »
I was reporting the technique, although i see that particular individual is also present in the thread you posted. He/she is not going to bother me anymore, but probably there should be a form of penalty for such shenanigans.

Offline LaLight

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #4 on: 08 May 2017, 09:17:13 PM »
I was reporting the technique, although i see that particular individual is also present in the thread you posted. He/she is not going to bother me anymore, but probably there should be a form of penalty for such shenanigans.

We are currently working on the best way to handle people performing such stuff. We are aware of the number of them; we will come up with the best way of punishing.

Offline SirDagen

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #5 on: 09 May 2017, 11:46:09 AM »
we will come up with the best way of punishing.

People, punishment will get us nowhere and its not the people, its their behaviour we dont like. Therefore it is best to draw away attention from the behaviour by minimising the time we have to bestow on it.
Greetings,
SirDagen

Offline LaLight

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #6 on: 09 May 2017, 12:01:08 PM »
we will come up with the best way of punishing.

People, punishment will get us nowhere and its not the people, its their behaviour we dont like. Therefore it is best to draw away attention from the behaviour by minimising the time we have to bestow on it.

Yes, I think I chose the incorrect wording. Mostly we will try to minimize the chance of those people playing with other players.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #7 on: 09 May 2017, 01:08:27 PM »
It seems pretty simple: if you want less people to slowplay, then don't make it good for them to slowplay.

Gain a reputation for having very little tolerance for slowplayers -- make it visible to them when they've been reported and keep them on an extremely short leash with harsh consequences. Put a very easy-to-access button on the screen when a player resigns that reports their opponent and more people will use it. Reset offenders on the leaderboard and make sure they are very aware that it's being done to them.

People will do what is easiest for them: if you want more people to be reported, make it easy to report people. If you want people to not slowplay, make it really hard and disadvantageous for them to slowplay and make sure they're very aware of it.

Offline WhiteRabbit1981

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #8 on: 09 May 2017, 05:59:16 PM »
My take: have a report system, but officially dont do anything. Secretly implement a pairing routine that keeps pairing known slowplayers to each other.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #9 on: 09 May 2017, 09:37:36 PM »
My take: have a report system, but officially dont do anything. Secretly implement a pairing routine that keeps pairing known slowplayers to each other.

Heh.  If only that were something that could be easily implemented.

Offline tufftaeh

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #10 on: 10 May 2017, 12:57:28 AM »
I was actually thinking of a slow-rolling bot who would be paired with them, pretending he is one of them by sending suitable chat messages. That would be really fun.  8)

Offline SirDagen

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #11 on: 10 May 2017, 11:14:21 AM »
Great, now we are on track again.

Implement a pairing routine that keeps pairing known slowplayers to each other.

Heh.  If only that were something that could be easily implemented.

I guess it might not be extraordinarily difficult. Build a credit system, where people lose credit if they get reported too often and do not pair people with a credit difference of more than (lets say) 50%. Might be a possibility.
Greetings,
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Offline AdamH

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #12 on: 10 May 2017, 12:32:13 PM »
Great, now we are on track again.

Implement a pairing routine that keeps pairing known slowplayers to each other.

Heh.  If only that were something that could be easily implemented.

I guess it might not be extraordinarily difficult. Build a credit system, where people lose credit if they get reported too often and do not pair people with a credit difference of more than (lets say) 50%.

But I am not implying that it should be implemented quickly. There might be other tasks to tend to.

I don't think this is a good idea.

Aside from the discussion of how pairings need to be made in a way that maximizes the integrity of the leaderboard, this kind of thing is open to abuse.

Instead of slowplaying, the trolls are now just going to hit the report button on anyone they feel like. Decisions about players who deserve disciplinary action can be made with input from users, but they need to be up to the moderators and probably need to be evaluated on an individual basis.

If I'm going to pay money to use this service and the service is specifically trying to make my experience worse, there better be good reasons and evidence for this, otherwise the service has issues. Opening this kind of thing up to trolls who have any capability at all to abuse ths system is not a good enough reason.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #13 on: 10 May 2017, 01:32:28 PM »
I just formulated this in another thread about a similar topic, but it seems to be "the answer" to AdamH's response that reporting would be open to abuse: The game should, in the game log, keep track  (at least internally, not necessarily visible to the players) of the timing when players make decisions.

So just as it notices that you played a Copper, it attaches a time stamp to that decision in the game log. If you wait 4 min before playing the next Copper, this will be "on record". Then games (reported or otherwise) can later be examined (by hand or automatically) by the devs. This means that accusations of stalling are *verifyable*, instead of just being accusations.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #14 on: 10 May 2017, 01:50:26 PM »
Sure, and a human being needs to look at that, plus chat logs, plus undo requests, plus anything else in the software that's open to abuse, and evaluate these things on a case-by-case basis, which includes whatever punishment is deemed appropriate.

Messing with their automatch doesn't seem appropriate, though.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #15 on: 10 May 2017, 03:30:10 PM »
Instead of slowplaying, the trolls are now just going to hit the report button on anyone they feel like.

This usually isn't too much of an issue with reporting.  The people who get looked at will be those who get reported multiple times.  Trolls will get reported lots of times.  They may report lots of people because they are trolls, but their reports will be spread out across a large population which usually doesn't result in one person getting reported many times by trolls alone.  In short, ya you will get reported by trolls, but not enough to warrant looking into your activities.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #16 on: 10 May 2017, 04:30:11 PM »
Instead of slowplaying, the trolls are now just going to hit the report button on anyone they feel like.

This usually isn't too much of an issue with reporting.  The people who get looked at will be those who get reported multiple times.  Trolls will get reported lots of times.  They may report lots of people because they are trolls, but their reports will be spread out across a large population which usually doesn't result in one person getting reported many times by trolls alone.  In short, ya you will get reported by trolls, but not enough to warrant looking into your activities.

You may be right, but that's not a reason to design a system that's open to abuse (what's to stop someone from making 55 accounts and reporting me on all of them whenever they want to?) A human being should look into it before a decision is made, which is even the case in your scenario.

Offline gitsticker8

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #17 on: 10 May 2017, 05:17:49 PM »
Oh, I don't disagree that a person should be making decisions about reports and bans.  The way it should work is if someone gets multiple reports, (let's say 10) then it triggers a review by a real person to see what they're being reported for.  I'd argue most people aren't going to be reported 10 times.  And if they are, then the number can be increased because let's face it...trolls will get reported more than average players so it should be obvious who needs to be looked at.

If somebody makes 50 accounts to report you, they would need to get in a game with you 50 times on each separate account to be successful.  I don't usually doubt the persistence of trolls, but that is a lot of effort and would be an extremely fringe scenario.  This is assuming the report function is only available while in or after a game with another person (as it should be imo).

Offline Jacob Marley

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #18 on: 10 May 2017, 11:01:56 PM »
I'm with Adam, problem users should be reported and reviewed by Mods.  If needed, warnings/bans/etc can be imposed on the problem users, otherwise the pairing system should not be messed with.

Offline scone

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #19 on: 11 May 2017, 09:47:32 PM »
I think it's telling that so many of the top threads are about this issue. I think allowing players to report abuse, and reviewing and punishing frequently reported players (with punishments up to and including permabans), is an important feature. I'm surprised it doesn't make the devs' top 15 priorities for 2017.

The blacklist feature is a good step forward, but not enough. Blacklisting someone makes sure I don't have to deal with them, but they're still going to be matching against other people and making their lives miserable.

I bought a gold sub a week ago, and overall it's felt like a very good investment, and I've had a great time. Most of the player base is great. But that 3% of the time I get matched up against rancid toxic opponents really bums me out, and it's the only reason I might hesitate to recommend the game to a friend.

Offline Wolfhere

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #20 on: 14 May 2017, 01:20:18 PM »
Personally, I'm satisfied with the blacklisting system.  The only issue I have is with truly toxic comments.  Some folks just can't be good sports and blasklisting means I don't have to play them again.  However, I'm sure there are people that enjoy the trash talk, or simply don't care.  My desire to not play against certain people again, for whatever reason, may not be true for someone else.

Offline mrfiat

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Re: Sore losers
« Reply #21 on: 15 May 2017, 10:04:10 PM »
We have a way to mute the chat.  (like ISO had)  We need a consistent way to report abuse.  Please make an official link off the game that records the game #, timestamps, etc.  Thanks!