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Author Topic: Disable Undo for the game  (Read 2978 times)

Offline Heraklit

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #15 on: 04 October 2017, 12:29:57 PM »
Without words. There should be an option to disable undo.

Heraklit:
not after drawing
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
sty.silver:
man I just topdecked that card
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
sty.silver:
don't make me blacklist you
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
Heraklit:
u can do
sty.silver:
not after drawing is a totally nonsensical policy
sty.silver:
if drawing has no hidden information
sty.silver:
there is no difference between topdecking a card and then drawing it or remodelign sth
sty.silver:
it l iteraly makes zero logical sense
sty.silver:
it's beneath a dominion player man
sty.silver hat die Verbindung verloren.

Offline Cave-O-Sapien

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #16 on: 05 October 2017, 01:26:59 AM »
Without words. There should be an option to disable undo.

Heraklit:
not after drawing
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
sty.silver:
man I just topdecked that card
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
sty.silver:
don't make me blacklist you
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
Heraklit:
u can do
sty.silver:
not after drawing is a totally nonsensical policy
sty.silver:
if drawing has no hidden information
sty.silver:
there is no difference between topdecking a card and then drawing it or remodelign sth
sty.silver:
it l iteraly makes zero logical sense
sty.silver:
it's beneath a dominion player man
sty.silver hat die Verbindung verloren.

I'm trying to follow what happened here.

He topdecked a card, then drew it, then requested an Undo?

And you said "no"?

If this is correct, then I grant this Undo 100% of the time.

BTW, this is a perfect example of why I don't think the "no Undo after new information is revealed" is the "Undo Silver Bullet" a lot of people think it is. I think it would be a nightmare to implement correctly; it would require some subjective decisions on what new information means; and for me it excludes about 50% of the cases where I would grant an Undo request in a ranked game.

Offline vinay

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #17 on: 05 October 2017, 02:51:51 AM »
Yep, sorry Heraklit: he's right and you were being a jerk. If he topdecked a card and you were upset that he asked for an undo after he drew that very same card, there's no reason you shouldn't grant an undo. There's no information revealed there.

Online yed

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #18 on: 05 October 2017, 07:59:57 AM »
Except I am not sure If the topdecking is clear from the log.

Offline Heraklit

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #19 on: 05 October 2017, 11:45:27 PM »
 Gopiet ist dem Tisch beigetreten.
Du trittst Spiel #7484246 auf oregon bei.
Heraklit:
hi hf no undo
Gopiet ist dem Tisch beigetreten.
Du trittst Spiel #7484456 auf oregon bei.
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
Gopiet:
..
Gopiet:
stop that
Gopiet:
undo
Heraklit:
i rote that before starting our first game
Anfrage Rückgängig zu machen abgelehnt.
Gopiet:
WHAT ??
Heraklit:
wrote
Heraklit:
hi hf no undo
Gopiet:
little bitch

Offline tashley2

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #20 on: 07 October 2017, 06:03:20 PM »
Coming from a chess background (no do-overs in rated chess games) I don't like the undo feature.  I've never asked for one,  and never allow it if asked for after cards are drawn or future cards viewed,  I usually allow it otherwise unless the opponent asks for it excessively.  It's definitely the cause of a lot of strife and I'm sure that players' blacklists are much fuller because of the undo feature. 
In my opinion,  Dominion is the best game invented since Chess,  it's so subtle,  there is some luck involved but skill plays a much bigger role.  I think the undo feature does somewhat of a disservice to the game,  there's kind of a pervasive do-over mentality.
In a rated game,  my objective of course is to win if I can,  not to help my opponent win.
I know that a lot of players don't like the undo feature.  Perhaps a poll should be taken on whether players that play here want the undo feature or not. 

Offline Rabid

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #21 on: 07 October 2017, 07:17:27 PM »
I would much rather allow a few undo's for miss clicks / rules knowledge.
Than for the game to take a very long time because my opponent is being extra careful.

Offline dane

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #22 on: 07 October 2017, 07:42:34 PM »
I would much rather allow a few undo's for miss clicks / rules knowledge.
Than for the game to take a very long time because my opponent is being extra careful.
My feeling precisely.

Unfortunately some misclicks cause information to be revealed, in which case I usually refuse the undo (though in my experience very few players request an undo in such a situation), but I've never refused an undo if no information has been revealed.  Sometimes, however, it can be unclear what the undo refers to - for example if one clicks on 'End Actions' and then requests an undo, it will look to the opponent as though one is asking to undo the previous action - so some improvement to the interface would be desirable when time permits.

Offline Megas_Droungarios

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #23 on: 30 November 2017, 07:34:35 PM »
No, Undo needs to be a feature of the online version:  the possibility of misclicking in a computer interface is not part of the game design, at least for those of us who love the game played face-to-face with physical cards.  (With very rare exceptions -- a player who is walloping me and does something really stupid, or an opponent who was a jerk and denied an innocuous undo request of mine early game -- I always grant undo requests for actions that didn't reveal information that would otherwise be unknown to the player.)

Offline bananny

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #24 on: 15 December 2017, 05:01:09 AM »
Yes!  I would like an option to disable undo.  (or remove it completely.)  I'm tired of people giving me
attitude because I will not grant an undo.  I'm not even sure why the undo was added in the first place. 
No other version of online Dominion has had it or needed it.

I like undo for the occasional misclick.  But the rare times I ever dare play against real people and not bots, I allow one undo per game.  More than that, or if I'm playing a slow player, I deny them and then get hassled about it.  Same goes if I misclick when playing a live person.  I might ask for one, beyond that, it's my problem and I deal with it by working with what I have in play and not being rude to my opponent.

Offline katie_mi

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #25 on: 08 January 2018, 12:06:40 AM »

I just played with a player who told me that he never asks for undos und won't grant them. I would have liked to know that at the beginning and have preferred to be matched with a different player instead.

In the Goko or MF implementation there was an option if you wanted to play with or without vp displayed and it was part of the matching feature.

Maybe we could simply add a similar option here, so the matching will only match players who have the same setting for the undo marker. The undo switch doesn't have to be implemented in the game but only in the matching feature. It's simply a signal that the player will or will not grant undos. It will be a relief for all not having to discuss with another player who thinks differently about the undo than yourself and you don't have to blacklist the player after! the game.


Offline irata

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #26 on: 01 February 2018, 01:48:52 AM »
Vinay you are 100% wrong.  Undo is an optional feature and denying it does not make the poster a "jerk"  A simple option to not allow undos on a game would be really appreciated.   Are there any plans to add this feature?

Offline Ingix

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #27 on: 01 February 2018, 09:37:18 AM »
I can understand that a player may not want to grant an undo on principal reasons, and that players may want to be matched with other players that have a similar attitude towards undo (never/sometimes/almost always).

What I don't understand is why players want a feature built in ("A simple option to not allow undos on a game"), that they can totally enforce themselves. If you want to do that, than simply deny undo requests, maybe with a comment the first time.

Offline blamelewis

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #28 on: 02 February 2018, 01:53:04 AM »
Ingix - it's because it *feels* rude to deny undos manually - and often provokes players to be abusive in response, no matter how much we hold the principle that undos are optional. Undos on/off as a matching criteria would avoid this social difficulty - as it established the attitude towards undos before a player commits to game.


Offline Stef

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #29 on: 02 February 2018, 02:05:23 PM »
Ingix - it's because it *feels* rude to deny undos manually - and often provokes players to be abusive in response, no matter how much we hold the principle that undos are optional. Undos on/off as a matching criteria would avoid this social difficulty - as it established the attitude towards undos before a player commits to game.

I intend to build this feature, but I am also afraid you will be very disappointed by the results.
I have a feeling that selecting "I only want to be matched with people that never allow undos" will turn out to be annoyingly close to "I like to just sit & wait here while not getting matched". The people that at least want to allow some undo's are an overwhelming majority.