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Author Topic: Disable Undo for the game  (Read 6735 times)

Offline blamelewis

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #30 on: 02 February 2018, 02:25:33 PM »
It's a fair point Stef...

My preferred implementation of Undo would be something like I described here...

http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2709.msg12109#msg12109

Cheers
Tim

Offline mark1878

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #31 on: 02 February 2018, 11:32:34 PM »
Yes!  I would like an option to disable undo.  (or remove it completely.)  I'm tired of people giving me
attitude because I will not grant an undo.  I'm not even sure why the undo was added in the first place. 
No other version of online Dominion has had it or needed it.

I like undo for the occasional misclick.  But the rare times I ever dare play against real people and not bots, I allow one undo per game.  More than that, or if I'm playing a slow player, I deny them and then get hassled about it.  Same goes if I misclick when playing a live person.  I might ask for one, beyond that, it's my problem and I deal with it by working with what I have in play and not being rude to my opponent.

I've  just started playing with the night cards.
So I get to a state where I have 9 treasures and a bat - I want to play all but one copper.  In face to face I would put the copper in one hand and put the rest down. I can't do that so I click on 8 of them and then the autoplay treasure button we have been trained to use gets clicked on. So what happens in this situation? It would NOT happen in face to face. (In this case my oppenent did not sdo anything just let the game hang and so I write this waiting for hime to time out so I can make him resign.

This undo is not helping

In my case the soluition would to be remove the autoplay treasures button or allow the night before buying.

I also today move my mouse to buy a province and it clicked on a supply card as I moved it. Again this would not happen in real life, but the opponent rejected undo -

I would note that I belong to several playing groups and they all allow you to do a quick retraction if the state of the game is not changed.

Offline tashley2

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #32 on: 04 February 2018, 06:33:04 PM »
Ingix - it's because it *feels* rude to deny undos manually - and often provokes players to be abusive in response, no matter how much we hold the principle that undos are optional. Undos on/off as a matching criteria would avoid this social difficulty - as it established the attitude towards undos before a player commits to game.

I intend to build this feature, but I am also afraid you will be very disappointed by the results.
I have a feeling that selecting "I only want to be matched with people that never allow undos" will turn out to be annoyingly close to "I like to just sit & wait here while not getting matched". The people that at least want to allow some undo's are an overwhelming majority.

Look forward to this being implemented.  I believe at least a significant minority of players will choose the 'undo off' option so that it won't be too hard to find opponents.  It could result in 2 sets of players (those who want the undo feature & those who don't) that rarely or never play each other,  so a player with a rating of 50 in one group might be significantly different in strength from a 50-rated player in the other group.  Since some players who like the undo feature often use it to get around the rule that you're not supposed to look ahead in the deck (see rules to the base game),  a player with a rating of 50 in the no-undo group will likely be stronger than than a 50 rated player in the pro-undo group.  Speculation, i admit,  but it could have implications in tournaments if people are paired / classified based on their ratings.
The undo feature is kind of like a demagogue politician,  it divides the community.

Offline YooperJake

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #33 on: 01 March 2018, 07:29:36 PM »
I wish it was simply a rule: If no new information has been revealed, an undo is allowed; otherwise it is not. No asking the other play for permission, and no denying it. I hate it when people ask for an undo after I've already started playing cards (especially if they then get mad when I deny it), and on the other hand it's annoying for people to deny undo requests in easy-mistake kind of situations.

I like this - I see it as an option, "auto-undo".  It would be set to True for me.  Especially on your own turn, when allowing an undo, for all intents and purposes has not given you an advantage.  When such a request is denied, that is what provokes my ire (and blacklist).  I request an undo less than once per game (easily).  I seek to recreate the FtF game environment in my online games.

That said, I would have no problem with an option for users to create games where "allow undo" is set to False.

Cheers,
Jake

Offline YooperJake

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #34 on: 01 March 2018, 07:44:08 PM »
Ingix - it's because it *feels* rude to deny undos manually - and often provokes players to be abusive in response, no matter how much we hold the principle that undos are optional. Undos on/off as a matching criteria would avoid this social difficulty - as it established the attitude towards undos before a player commits to game.

I intend to build this feature, but I am also afraid you will be very disappointed by the results.
I have a feeling that selecting "I only want to be matched with people that never allow undos" will turn out to be annoyingly close to "I like to just sit & wait here while not getting matched". The people that at least want to allow some undo's are an overwhelming majority.

I agree wholeheartedly.  To date, I have played over 3,151 games of Dominion on this site.  In all those games, I feel confident stating that I have only had a problem with someone denying a reasonable undo request a handful of times.  Perhaps due, in part, to my low rate of undo requests, but moreover that the vast majority of players grant reasonable undo requests.

We've all experienced players who try to abuse the undo button, and those rare situations are, IMHO, what the deny button is for (and the blacklist).

Thanks for the game and your continuting efforts to make improvements.  The latest one I noticed was the feature making it easier to see what you are topdecking with Harbinger - well done!

Cheers,
Jake

Offline Megas_Droungarios

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #35 on: 05 October 2019, 03:46:01 AM »
When playing Dominion in real life with cards it never happened someone asked to go back some step.


I have folks want a mulligan on some action in friendly games face-to-face with actual cards.  But there's another issue:  the GUI isn't part of the game of Dominion.  It's easy to click accidentally on some part of the screen, or to have the cursor not quite where you thought it was and thus click on the wrong thing when you meant to click (even playing on a Mac or PC -- how anyone plays on a phone is beyond me).

Offline HaryJ

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #36 on: 20 November 2019, 06:23:15 PM »
My feature request would be the absolute opposite.

I would like to see a option for "gentlemen undo".

As long as the opponent stays within the same turn, he should be allowed to make as much undo actions as he likes.

I know that this option sounds crazy in terms of ranking and tournaments.

But I'm often playing against good friends and in this games I'm not bothered by undo-requests.
I'm bothered by the fact that I have to press "Allow" within the undo request dialog.

I don't want to discuss this approach, whether it's good, bad or insane.
As I said, for me it would be great option in games where I play with friends I trust.
And I think it's probably easier to handle than an "auto undo logic" which should evaluate if the player is getting an advantage by an undo action or not.

So in case that there will be an option to toggle undo on/off, I would like to propose a third option:
 
  1) Classic undo (request for undo)
  2) Disabled undo
  3) Gentlemen undo

Offline Yardbird

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Re: Disable Undo for the game
« Reply #37 on: 24 November 2019, 08:08:57 PM »
I really think the best option here is just to have a checkbox after the first (or maybe third) time someone makes an Undo request.  If they keep requesting undos and you don't want to grant them, you can tick the box and undo requests will be denied automatically, preventing both having to manually decline every request and also the slow playing tick of clicking Undo over and over.