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drsteelhammer

Quote from: AdamH on 01 September 2017, 02:12:21 PM
Excellent. I think section 8 is very much improved. For this tournament it seems that the plan is to have matches streamed on replay mode, then?

Also, I assume there are no officially "tournament-sanctioned" commentators, since there is no mention of that in the rules?

What do you mean by replay mode? I don't think there is a replay mode currently. Im not 100% certain of the technicalities used, but I think there will be a way that only the streamers can join the spectator mode.

You're also right about the commentators, as you said scheduling is hard enough so I think assigning streamers now will only make it more difficult.

AdamH

Quote from: drsteelhammer on 01 September 2017, 03:09:28 PM
What do you mean by replay mode? I don't think there is a replay mode currently. Im not 100% certain of the technicalities used, but I think there will be a way that only the streamers can join the spectator mode.

The only way I know of to allow certain people to spectate a game and exclude all others is using the "friends only" spectator mode. So a player would have to clear off their friends list and add only the moderators or streamers or whoever. I don't think this is reasonable to ask of people.

If there is some other way, I'm not aware of it.

The replay mode I'm referring to would be where people take a game number, then I think you can just click through each of the decisions made -- I guess you could do that one stream. I am not as familiar with this feature, but it seems like the only thing you could really do if you wanted to cast a tournament game after-the-fact. It doesn't seem that great, since you'd have to keep the results quiet until that stream/video was released for there to be any suspense at all, but there is some upside. If some guy is taking a long time to think, you don't have to wait for it, you can just have the commentators say whatever they want to say and then move on when they're done. You could also rewind if needed.

jsh

Quote from: AdamH on 01 September 2017, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: drsteelhammer on 01 September 2017, 03:09:28 PM
What do you mean by replay mode? I don't think there is a replay mode currently. Im not 100% certain of the technicalities used, but I think there will be a way that only the streamers can join the spectator mode.

The only way I know of to allow certain people to spectate a game and exclude all others is using the "friends only" spectator mode. So a player would have to clear off their friends list and add only the moderators or streamers or whoever. I don't think this is reasonable to ask of people.

If there is some other way, I'm not aware of it.

The replay mode I'm referring to would be where people take a game number, then I think you can just click through each of the decisions made -- I guess you could do that one stream. I am not as familiar with this feature, but it seems like the only thing you could really do if you wanted to cast a tournament game after-the-fact. It doesn't seem that great, since you'd have to keep the results quiet until that stream/video was released for there to be any suspense at all, but there is some upside. If some guy is taking a long time to think, you don't have to wait for it, you can just have the commentators say whatever they want to say and then move on when they're done. You could also rewind if needed.

It's been discussed (not here) that Stef will implement a method of only a single person being able to spectate the match (the streamer). The details aren't set in stone yet AFAIK, so that is probably why the rules aren't clear on it either. All we know is it's what's happening.

AdamH

Oh that's neat.

I have no further comments on the rules.

flopcakes

Can we switch to a 2-3-2 format? I think it's a little more fair.

This isn't about familiarity with sports: the player who gets advantage in Game 5 should not be the same one who gets that advantage in Game 7. With the current rules (or a 2-2-1-1-1), you're effectively giving clinch advantage to the same player twice.

The order of the first four games doesn't matter because any logical format will give each player two first-turn games.

drsteelhammer

Quote from: flopcakes on 11 September 2017, 03:01:15 AM
Can we switch to a 2-3-2 format? I think it's a little more fair.

This isn't about familiarity with sports: the player who gets advantage in Game 5 should not be the same one who gets that advantage in Game 7. With the current rules (or a 2-2-1-1-1), you're effectively giving clinch advantage to the same player twice.

The order of the first four games doesn't matter because any logical format will give each player two first-turn games.

This is a best of 6, so the order shouldn't matter regardless. One player could start the first three games and then the other player could start three.

The first player in game 7 is determined randomly.

flopcakes

The rules say that you don't play any more if you get 3.5 wins - it's really just a best-of-7 with three times as many words.

Mic Qsenoch

Quote from: flopcakes on 12 September 2017, 09:49:34 AM
The rules say that you don't play any more if you get 3.5 wins - it's really just a best-of-7 with three times as many words.

3.5 would not win a best of 7.

Polk5440

Quote
10.1 If you disconnect during a game, use the reconnect feature. If your opponent is disconnected, do not make use of the "make resign" feature. This will not be counted as winning the game.

11.2 Keep in mind that in a competitive situation such as this tournament, players take a long time to consider a play. Do not make use of the "make resign" feature if your opponent is thinking.

This is just asking for trouble. If we're not supposed to use the "make resign" button, there should be a tournament mode (see my earlier post) that turns this off.

Quote
10.2 If the disconnect takes an extended amount of time, write down the game number and reload the game (latest decision) at a later date.

Where are there instructions on how to do this?

Quote
10.3 If reloading the game fails, complete the remaining games of the match first. If no player has reached 3.5 points after completing the remaining games, contact your moderator about the lost game.

How do we contact our moderator?

--

Also, if my opponent and I speak different languages, how do we schedule matches, ask opponents to explain themselves, or otherwise interact if it's not built into the client? It seems like this tournament is multi-lingual and there is no requirement to conduct everything in English.

irrationalE

#69
Quote from: Polk5440 on 12 September 2017, 05:31:55 PM
Quote
10.3 If reloading the game fails, complete the remaining games of the match first. If no player has reached 3.5 points after completing the remaining games, contact your moderator about the lost game.

How do we contact our moderator?

Send a PM. (At least for me. And you will probably get a faster response sending a PM on f.ds, but I will consistently check this forum as well once play begins)

Deadlock39

Quote from: Polk5440 on 12 September 2017, 05:31:55 PM
Quote
10.1 If you disconnect during a game, use the reconnect feature. If your opponent is disconnected, do not make use of the "make resign" feature. This will not be counted as winning the game.

11.2 Keep in mind that in a competitive situation such as this tournament, players take a long time to consider a play. Do not make use of the "make resign" feature if your opponent is thinking.

This is just asking for trouble. If we're not supposed to use the "make resign" button, there should be a tournament mode (see my earlier post) that turns this off.

Unfortunately there is not bandwidth to make this type of improvement at this time.

The make resign is a feature designed to allow players to end matches when their opponent abandons a match without resigning. It is not appropriate to use this feature to force a game clock on your opponent if a complicated situation occurs.

It is important to understand that situations where it would be appropriate to take the amount of time required to trigger this condition in Dominion game should be incredibly uncommon, however, if a situation arises that does take a player this amount of time, the correct action is to discuss the cause of the delay with your opponent, and if necessary, your moderator.

Quote from: Polk5440 on 12 September 2017, 05:31:55 PM
Quote
10.2 If the disconnect takes an extended amount of time, write down the game number and reload the game (latest decision) at a later date.

Where are there instructions on how to do this?

I will attempt to get instructions for reloading a game posted before the start of the tournament.

You can ask the moderator, or any other member of the forum who is experienced with this feature if the situation arises and you do not know how.

Quote from: Polk5440 on 12 September 2017, 05:31:55 PM
Quote
10.3 If reloading the game fails, complete the remaining games of the match first. If no player has reached 3.5 points after completing the remaining games, contact your moderator about the lost game.

How do we contact our moderator?

You can contact your moderator via PM on this forum, or via any other method they provide.

If I am your moderator for a match, you may also contact me via private message via discord, or f.ds in addition to this forum if you prefer.

Quote from: Polk5440 on 12 September 2017, 05:31:55 PM
Also, if my opponent and I speak different languages, how do we schedule matches, ask opponents to explain themselves, or otherwise interact if it's not built into the client? It seems like this tournament is multi-lingual and there is no requirement to conduct everything in English.

If you cannot communicate with your opponent, please let your moderator know immediately, and we will work to find someone to assist with communication.

Deadlock39

Quote from: flopcakes on 11 September 2017, 03:01:15 AM
Can we switch to a 2-3-2 format? I think it's a little more fair.

This isn't about familiarity with sports: the player who gets advantage in Game 5 should not be the same one who gets that advantage in Game 7. With the current rules (or a 2-2-1-1-1), you're effectively giving clinch advantage to the same player twice.

The order of the first four games doesn't matter because any logical format will give each player two first-turn games.

You can request this format from your opponent before your match. It is required that the starting player for the 7th match be random, but if your opponent agrees to this format, you can instead determine the start player of the first game randomly and play in the 2-3-2 order. This fulfills all rules requirements with each player playing 3 starts, and the starting player of the 7th game being determined randomly.

Deadlock39

I've updated the rules with a link to instructions on how to reload a prior game.

The updates made yesterday also some additional information regarding the requirements for declaring a game a stalemate.  Additions were also made to the Sportsmanlike Conduct section, including the section discussed above.

All other changes made in yesterday's update were only to improve clarity in some places.

Polk5440


Donald X.

So here is a proposal for a way to allow spectators for this particular tournament, provided that it's trivial for Stef, which he'll at least quickly know, and that the cons don't seem to outweigh the pros for people.

- just before the tournament starts, turn off visibility of hands to spectators, across the board, all games
- turn it back on after the tournament is over (weeks later)

Notes:
- since there is no interface needed, no new "tournament mode" option (a better solution for down the road), this should be an easy change
- spectators will still be able to see some hidden information, e.g. Native Village mat, but it seems minor enough to not encourage desperately trying to cheat this way
- spectators in non-tournament games will not be able to see hands! That's a downside; I don't know how much that matters.

I have no horse in this race but there you go.