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Author Topic: Enchantress and Goons  (Read 383 times)

Offline horusboyd

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Enchantress and Goons
« on: 06 September 2017, 05:31:20 PM »
I noticed Enchantress doesn't override the gain VP part of Goons. Is that a bug or normal?

Offline amoffett11

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #1 on: 06 September 2017, 05:36:28 PM »
Enchantress only affects the above line text of cards, and not the below line text.  So in the case of Goons, it still gains the VP (but gets no +buy, coins, or attack).  For this reason, Groundskeeper is great against Enchantress, as it's completely unaffected, you still get the VP and the +Card +Action is the same!

Offline horusboyd

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #2 on: 06 September 2017, 05:38:07 PM »
I see, that's interesting! So the part below the line doesn't count as being part of the instructions of the card? What is it called, then?

Offline amoffett11

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #3 on: 06 September 2017, 06:32:42 PM »
I'm not sure what the technical terms are, someone with better knowledge of the rules might be able to explain better.  I always just remember the rule and not the reason.  I think above line is technically the card's instructions, and the below line is just global effects, but not actually instructions of the card. 

Offline Matt Arnold

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #4 on: 06 September 2017, 07:01:39 PM »
Look at it this way. All Action cards begin with an implicit "When you play this," but those words are left out for sake of brevity. (... except for cards that need it, like Noble Brigand.)

By contrast, below-the-line texts do not instruct you to *do* something at the moment you play it. They specify some other time. The most common examples are "while this is in play", "when you gain this", "when you buy this", and "when you call this back from your Tavern mat". None of these times count as "playing" the card and then carrying out its instructions upon play. It's a condition that is in effect and waiting for something to happen.

That's also why you can't Throne Room/King's Court/Procession/Crown a below-the-line effect.

The horizontal line is missing on Harem due to an oversight, but if you Crown a Harem it gives you two dollars, then two dollars again, but the victory points are something that happens when the game ends just like any normal victory card.

Scheme would have been too confusing if it had a horizontal line, and interestingly, it is possible to Throne Room its cleanup effect.

Watchtower omits the horizontal line for purely aesthetic reasons.

Offline horusboyd

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #5 on: 06 September 2017, 07:14:08 PM »
I see, cool! Thanks a lot!

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #6 on: 06 September 2017, 08:58:47 PM »
Your explanation was good, but I am compelled to correct:

The horizontal line is missing on Harem due to an oversight, but if you Crown a Harem it gives you two dollars, then two dollars again, but the victory points are something that happens when the game ends just like any normal victory card.
Note that the 2E Harem has the line.

Watchtower omits the horizontal line for purely aesthetic reasons.
No, that post was referring to Harem. Watchtower has the line.

Offline Matt Arnold

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #7 on: 06 September 2017, 09:15:19 PM »
I spoke in haste. Thanks very much!

Offline jeebus

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Re: Enchantress and Goons
« Reply #8 on: 11 September 2017, 10:49:56 PM »
And just to clarify the Enchantress question, Enchantress specifically says that it works when the other players play an Action card. Just like Throne Room says to play a card twice. And as others have said, getting VP from Goons has nothing to do with playing it. (It's still the instructions of the card, it just happens at another time.)