Don't allow observers to see hands of both players

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vinay

Observers are able to see the hands of both players, and while often this doesn't matter, it can in some circumstances. As an example, a player might take the 2nd to last prov while behind on points if they know that their opponent does not have enough money to buy the last prov on their turn.

I've played against a certain player twice, and both times someone (the same person) has immediately joined and observed the table. While I can't prove it, there's a possibility that this player is abusing the system by having the observer tell the player what my hand is.

There's really no reason that observers shouldn't just see the cards that are played as they are played.

Mic Qsenoch

It's more fun to spectate games where you can see the cards each player is holding and evaluate the choices they are making before they play the cards.

But I agree that the client should let individuals control what spectators see for those who are worried about cheating, and should probably default to invisible hands for rated games.

vinay

That's fair. I think you've hit the nail on the head with your suggestion: default to invisible for rated games, and each individual player can have an option to show or not show their cards to an observer (best thing would be if you can toggle it mid-game as well.)

drsteelhammer

As far as I know, a feature like this is planned, altough its priority isn't very high right now.

vinay

I hope you will consider boosting the priority; I believe that there is a highly ranked player (level 60) who may be abusing this. Disabling observing in ranked matches until this can be implemented might be worth considering.

Cave-O-Sapien

Can we turn off observed hands for all rated games ALWAYS?

If someone really wants to stream a match or let people otherwise observe with 100% information, just set up an unrated match.

It seems really odd that the only thing (aside from scruples) standing between me spying on my opponent in rated games is the time and effort required (minimal) to create a dummy account.

Philip

Quote from: Cave-O-Sapien on 14 September 2017, 01:39:09 AM
the only thing (aside from scruples) standing between me spying on my opponent in rated games is the time and effort required (minimal) to create a dummy account.

Well that and you'll get banned if you're caught.

Please don't disable a beloved feature just because some people might be abusing it.

If we only allowed things to exist if they were immune to abuse, the world would be a much impoverished place.

Cave-O-Sapien

Quote from: Philip on 14 September 2017, 07:43:41 AM
Quote from: Cave-O-Sapien on 14 September 2017, 01:39:09 AM
the only thing (aside from scruples) standing between me spying on my opponent in rated games is the time and effort required (minimal) to create a dummy account.

Well that and you'll get banned if you're caught.

Please don't disable a beloved feature just because some people might be abusing it.

If we only allowed things to exist if they were immune to abuse, the world would be a much impoverished place.

In general, I agree with the philosophy you're espousing here -- we have to tolerate a certain amount of abuse, with or without the possibility of redress. Obviously having an avenue for redress is ideal, but in this particular case, I worry about the ability to demonstrate abuse. Obviously the case I outlined -- creating an alt-account that logs in through the same IP address -- is suspicious, but it's still not clear-cut how one would prove that is abuse. And if I've got a friend -- with a real account -- and he/she helps me cheat, you're going to have a hell of a time proving it.

When I suggested turning it off for all ranked matches, I guess I underestimated how much some people like the ability to watch random ranked matches, and I was assuming this change would be an easier short-term fix than providing the option for each user to control spectating privileges.

I think the proposal made by Mic is ideal.

drsteelhammer