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Author Topic: Update wording of Black Market  (Read 413 times)

Offline JW

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Update wording of Black Market
« on: 24 September 2017, 08:36:52 PM »
Black Market can be confusing because the online implementation does not match the wording on the card. Ideally the text of Black Market would be updated to reflect the current functionality. The key items to change seem to be for the card text to indicate that you don't get to choose the order of the cards put back, and that it is shuffled after each cycle.

This mismatch has caused confusion for some people (here's one example).

These are the rules for the Black Market deck we'll use on January 1st:
- the deck has 60 random cards you own.
- after every cycle it gets shuffled.
- the decks contents are unknown at the start of the game
- there won't be anything in the deck that would require additional setup.
   -> You'll never find tournament, young witch, hermit, urchin, page, peasant, baker, trade route or pirate ship.
   -> Only when the kingdom already has (potions, spoils, ruins), you might find those cards in the deck.
   -> Cards that require extra mats (island, native village) are allowed in the deck.

Offline werothegreat

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Re: Update wording of Black Market
« Reply #1 on: 25 September 2017, 04:45:19 AM »
That looks more like a bug with the reshuffling than confusion over the deck shuffling.

Offline JW

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Re: Update wording of Black Market
« Reply #2 on: 25 September 2017, 05:05:39 AM »
That looks more like a bug with the reshuffling than confusion over the deck shuffling.

You're right. Here's a better example: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=684.msg1620#msg1620. I've updated the original post.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Update wording of Black Market
« Reply #3 on: 25 September 2017, 06:12:42 AM »

These are the rules for the Black Market deck we'll use on January 1st:
* * *
   -> You'll never find tournament, young witch, hermit, urchin, page, peasant, baker, trade route or pirate ship.
   -> Only when the kingdom already has (potions, spoils, ruins), you might find those cards in the deck.
   -> Cards that require extra mats (island, native village) are allowed in the deck.
[/quote]

How odd.  What is the reason for excluding these particular cards?  I am assuming that each of these 9 is, for various reasons, difficult to code in, yes?  Or is there a less technical reason for this decision?

Offline JW

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Re: Update wording of Black Market
« Reply #4 on: 25 September 2017, 07:21:35 AM »
These are the rules for the Black Market deck we'll use on January 1st:
* * *
   -> You'll never find tournament, young witch, hermit, urchin, page, peasant, baker, trade route or pirate ship.
   -> Only when the kingdom already has (potions, spoils, ruins), you might find those cards in the deck.
   -> Cards that require extra mats (island, native village) are allowed in the deck.

How odd.  What is the reason for excluding these particular cards?  I am assuming that each of these 9 is, for various reasons, difficult to code in, yes?  Or is there a less technical reason for this decision?

You can't see the contents of the Black Market before the game begins in the online implementation (which I think is a great choice, because it makes the card simpler to use, particularly for newer players).  Therefore, cards that would change the initial setup of the game shouldn't be included. For example, Young Witch being in the Black Market would require adding a bane card to the kingdom from the beginning, but then you'd know that Young Witch was in the Black Market. It also keeps kingdoms from having overly complex setup (needing to add Potions because there's a Potion card in the Black Market, Ruins because Marauder is in the Black Market, etc.), which I applaud.

Cards that gain other cards that aren't in the supply (e.g., Urchin / Mercenary) are a harder call, as you could just reveal Mercenaries when Urchin is gained, but that choice seems reasonable (and avoids confusion with how the Peasant/Page lines work out of the Black Market).

The choice to exclude Pirate Ship doesn't look justified, given the inclusion of Island, but it's a small problem in the scheme of things.

I've said it elsewhere, but including Island but not including Pirate Ship seems super inconsistent. Island requires an extra mat, but only once you buy and play it, just like Pirate Ship does. They either both need to be removed or both included - any rationalization of just one is probably influenced by people liking Island more than Pirate Ship.

Just hide the PS counter until you buy it, the same way the Island mat is hidden. I don't see why there is a difference. I also don't see why people should have visible PS counters before they play the card for the first time even in regular games.

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Update wording of Black Market
« Reply #5 on: 26 September 2017, 12:35:28 AM »
How odd.  What is the reason for excluding these particular cards?  I am assuming that each of these 9 is, for various reasons, difficult to code in, yes?  Or is there a less technical reason for this decision?
I personally requested that cards with setup not appear in the Black Market deck. It's confusing.