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Author Topic: Disciple + Fugitive  (Read 639 times)

Offline josh bornstein

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Disciple + Fugitive
« on: 01 November 2017, 07:33:31 AM »
Game 8293139, Turn 13

I played Disciple and then Fugitive.  Game played Fug. twice, as expected.  But according to the game log, I never gained the extra copy of Fugitive. 

Bug?  Some other reason why I did not get that 3rd Fugitive?

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: Disciple + Fugitive
« Reply #1 on: 01 November 2017, 08:17:31 AM »
Fugitive is not in the supply so cannot be gained by regular methods.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Disciple + Fugitive
« Reply #2 on: 01 November 2017, 07:16:36 PM »
Kier,
I do not think your explanation is correct.  (Or, more accurately, it should not be correct, based on the card's wording.)  There are cards out there that do specify that a card must be from the supply, in order for effect to occur.  But Disciple deliberately did not put that limiting writing in . . . it says only "...Action card..."  And, given the absence of any limiting words; the commonsense meaning, using English grammar, is that it applies to ANY action card.

I could see an exception (even with the current wording) if you play a card from Black Market, since--by definition--there is only 1 card of that type in the entire game.  If you have no additional cards of that type left in the game, obviously, no one can gain extra copies in any way.  But there are plenty of "spare" Fugitives in a game, so the clear wording of the card suggests that I should get an extra copy.

If your explanation ends up being correct after all; then the wording on the card should be changed.  Maybe adding at the end "...if played card is from the supply, then gain an additional copy" or something like that.

It's either a bug, or it very poor/inaccurate wording on Disciple.

Offline JW

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Re: Disciple + Fugitive
« Reply #3 on: 01 November 2017, 07:37:02 PM »
Cards that "gain a copy" can only gain a copy of a card if it’s available in the Supply. Applies to: Ambassador, Disciple, Duplicate, Jester, Messenger, Mint, Pilgrimage, Smugglers, Talisman. (taken from https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/131854/complete-rules-dominion-and-all-its-expansions)

Official FAQ for Disciple similarly says: The copy comes from the Supply and is put into your discard pile; if the Action is a non-Supply card, such as Fugitive, you can play it twice, but do not gain a copy of it.

In general, when you gain a card, it’s always taken from the Supply, unless an effect specifically tells you to gain it from somewhere else. So the only way to get a Fugitive is to exchange a Soldier for it.

Offline Rabid

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Re: Disciple + Fugitive
« Reply #4 on: 01 November 2017, 07:38:59 PM »
Also:
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Traveller
Page and Peasant can be bought or otherwise gained when being used in a game, but the other cards cannot, they are not in the Supply.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Disciple + Fugitive
« Reply #5 on: 01 November 2017, 08:01:36 PM »
@Josh: Basically, it is the other way around: If an effect says nothing specifically, it can only gain cards from the supply. It has to explicitly say it comes from somewhere else, in order to be able to do so. This can be seen in the formulation from the base rulebook that I've appended as a picture.

Quote
"Gain” – when a player gains a card, he takes the gained card (usually from the Supply) and puts it onto his Discard pile (unless the card says to put it elsewhere). The player does not get to use the card when he gains it.

You write:

Quote
There are cards out there that do specify that a card must be from the supply, in order for effect to occur.

Can you name such a card? I'm pretty sure that for each case the supply is explicitely mentioned, it is not connected with gaining cards (e.g. Lurker, which can trash cards from the supply).

As another indicator, take a look at a card from the Nocturne previews: Leprechaun. It can get you a Wish (a card not in the supply), but it has to explicetly say "from its pile" for it to formally work.