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Author Topic: Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction  (Read 267 times)

Offline JW

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Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction
« on: 24 November 2017, 07:19:58 PM »
With cards with on-gain effects (Villa, Death Cart, etc.), it isn't clear from the interface that you have the option not to use Watchtower. You have to click something like "Villa" in the log to trigger the Villa's on-gain effect without using Watchtower, which is confusing. I mentioned this issue with Death Cart here: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1014.msg2630#msg2630

Fine to delete this post.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction
« Reply #1 on: 24 November 2017, 11:21:36 PM »
I think that's the usual interface for the combination of something that is optional (Watchtower) and obligatory (Death Cart 2 Ruins gain). The Watchtower options in the log area are expicitely using 'may', maybe the Death Cart effect should explicitly state that it is obligatory (at least in this mixed case).

Reactions are special in that they come from a hidden zone and therefore you cannot give up the option to use them, so the game must always present it. But as long as there are obligatory effects, it also cannot give the "Done Reacting" button.

Offline JW

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Re: Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction
« Reply #2 on: 29 November 2017, 04:27:00 AM »
I don't know if I described this well. The buttons that appear in the game window say "Trash" and "Topdeck". You need to look at the log and click on it to have the option not to topdeck or trash the Death Cart (or Villa, etc.).

You gain a Death Cart and...
• Gain 2 Ruins
• may reveal Watchtower to trash it.
• may reveal Watchtower to topdeck it.

This can be confusing to players who do not realize that the "gain two Ruins" (or equivalent mandatory action) can be clicked on in the log to bypass the apparent (erroneous) requirement to use Watchtower from the game window. For example, see http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17583.msg734508#msg734508

Offline Ingix

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Re: Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction
« Reply #3 on: 29 November 2017, 01:07:56 PM »
I've split this topic from the known interface issue, because it is IMO not as clear cut as the other topics brought up (Thanks, JW!. I would have sworn there are already 1000 posts about the moving reveal window, but then I couldn't find any).

What I fail to see is what in this situation is so special. Sometimes the UI comes in the form of buttons, like Watchtower. Sometimes it comes in the form of clickable entries in the log area, like for a trashed Feodum or Fortress. Sometimes it comes in the form of Reactions clickable in your hand ,e.g. Market Square.

That means that in some situations, when more than one effect triggers, more than one method may apply (which can be confusing, no doubt). If you don't know about the clickable entry in the log area, you will be confused when something appears there, because the game apparently doesn't move forward.

If I understand you correctly, you argue (based on the post in f.ds) that the presence of the 2 buttons from Watchtower is so 'big' that people fail to take into account that another option is presented to them in the log area. Is that right?

Offline JW

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Re: Watchtower/ Death Cart interface interaction
« Reply #4 on: 29 November 2017, 08:32:07 PM »
If I understand you correctly, you argue (based on the post in f.ds) that the presence of the 2 buttons from Watchtower is so 'big' that people fail to take into account that another option is presented to them in the log area. Is that right?

Yes. Because you can advance the game forward from the big buttons for Watchtower's reaction, people may not notice that you can also advance the game forward without using Watchtower's reaction, but you need to do so through the log.

I was confused by this presentation as well the first time I encountered it (http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1014.msg2630#msg2630).