Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay  (Read 184 times)

Offline AdamH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« on: 03 December 2017, 03:55:54 PM »
The "smart ask" autoplay for when I want to exchange a gained card for a Changeling seems to work very well except for in one situation. When I'm playing a Changeling in my night phase, it will ask me if I want to exchange the thing I just gained for a Changeling and I think it should just assume I don't want that.

Offline markus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #1 on: 03 December 2017, 04:26:51 PM »
It asks, because you might want to run down the Changeling pile.

Offline AdamH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #2 on: 04 December 2017, 04:27:33 AM »
Yes I understand why this is a legal option in the game and why the client should technically allow it to take place.

And I thought the point of autoplay was so that you didn't have to tell the client about pointless decisions that you never want to make in practice.

If I want to empty the Changeling pile, I can just exchange my Changeling for a Changeling right away, instead of exchanging it for something else and then getting a Changeling instead of that. I believe you always have a Changeling in play while playing one, right?

The way it is now, you have to make an extra click every time you actually use a Changeling; I think the "smart ask" autoplay settings should make it so you don't have to do that.

Offline markus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #3 on: 04 December 2017, 07:46:11 AM »
If I want to empty the Changeling pile, I can just exchange my Changeling for a Changeling right away, instead of exchanging it for something else and then getting a Changeling instead of that. I believe you always have a Changeling in play while playing one, right?

No, you trash Changeling first, so you can't select it. (If you could, smart-ask wouldn't ask.)

I agree that wanting to do this is maybe not very likely. But Changeling has smart-ask on by default, because it would be a pain if you had to decline every time you could legally exchange for Changeling. Therefore, it makes sense to be conservative and users can comfortably keep it on without having to learn first in which situations they need to turn it off. (The most relevant case for turning it off that I know is: you want to pay more for your Changeling in the buy phase before gaining Villa and playing Storyteller. because you don't want to draw that many cards.)

There's a couple of situations where you get the Changeling question and it would never matter at the moment, but I think this situation is fine as is (it also doesn't happen too often during a game, if you can't gain Changelings from trash).

Offline AdamH

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #4 on: 05 December 2017, 03:00:52 AM »
If I want to empty the Changeling pile, I can just exchange my Changeling for a Changeling right away, instead of exchanging it for something else and then getting a Changeling instead of that. I believe you always have a Changeling in play while playing one, right?

No, you trash Changeling first, so you can't select it. (If you could, smart-ask wouldn't ask.)

This is what I get for posting without checking the card text :-(

I agree that wanting to do this is maybe not very likely. But Changeling has smart-ask on by default, because it would be a pain if you had to decline every time you could legally exchange for Changeling. Therefore, it makes sense to be conservative and users can comfortably keep it on without having to learn first in which situations they need to turn it off. (The most relevant case for turning it off that I know is: you want to pay more for your Changeling in the buy phase before gaining Villa and playing Storyteller. because you don't want to draw that many cards.)

If this is the most relevant case, then I think it proves my point that it shouldn't be asking you about this stuff with autoplay "smart ask" enabled. The point of autoplay is so that you don't have to keep clicking no on prompts that you will use less than 1% of the time, and this is so far below 1% of the time that I question whether or not it's ever actually happened to anyone in a real game of Dominion.

Autoplay as a whole is disabled by default, when you enable it, it means you have some idea what you're doing and you don't want to click a million times for stuff that you don't care about. I still think this case with Changeling fits.

I mean, this isn't actually going to happen anyways, so I guess there's not much point in arguing about it...

Offline markus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #5 on: 05 December 2017, 08:40:25 AM »
Autoplay as a whole is disabled by default, when you enable it, it means you have some idea what you're doing and you don't want to click a million times for stuff that you don't care about. I still think this case with Changeling fits.
You're wrong here: Crown, Coin of the Realm and Changeling autoplays are enabled by default, i.e. also for newly created accounts.

I wouldn't mind, if Changeling asked fewer times (maybe an option "smarter ask"...). My initial feeling was similar to yours, in that it shouldn't ask in quite unlikely situations. But after playing with it for a bit, I've come to like that I don't have to think about turning it off at all. And I don't find that I'm asked too many times in vain per game - also note that you can set it to "never exchange", if you encounter a game in which you would be asked many times but don't feel like making use of it.

Offline Cave-O-Sapien

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #6 on: 06 December 2017, 12:21:58 AM »
I also had a Changeling "smart ask" failure:

When buying Messenger (as a first buy), the smart ask assumes you want the extra gain but asks if you want to exchange Messenger.

I haven't reproduced this.

Offline markus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #7 on: 06 December 2017, 12:59:39 AM »
I also had a Changeling "smart ask" failure:

When buying Messenger (as a first buy), the smart ask assumes you want the extra gain but asks if you want to exchange Messenger.

I haven't reproduced this.

I'm not sure whether I understand correctly, but is the complaint that you're not asked about the card that you pick as a Messenger target? Note that if you pick Silver and want to exchange it for Changeling, you could pick Changeling in the first place and your opponent doesn't get the choice between Silver and Changeling.

The situations in which it makes a difference are relatively rare:
-) At least 3 players and a pile with 1 card: e.g. I choose Silver as a target but exchange for Changeling, the next player prefers to keep the last Silver and then the 3rd player can't gain Silver)
-) One Changeling left and I want to junk my opponent: e.g. I choose Silver and exchange it for the last Changeling, my opponent can't exchange the Silver anymore.

In those cases you'd have to switch off smart ask.

Offline Cave-O-Sapien

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #8 on: 06 December 2017, 01:57:21 AM »
I also had a Changeling "smart ask" failure:

When buying Messenger (as a first buy), the smart ask assumes you want the extra gain but asks if you want to exchange Messenger.

I haven't reproduced this.

I'm not sure whether I understand correctly, but is the complaint that you're not asked about the card that you pick as a Messenger target?

Yes, though "complaint" is maybe a strong word. I was just surprised that I wasn't given the choice but my opponent was.

Offline markus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Changeling "smart ask" autoplay
« Reply #9 on: 06 December 2017, 07:50:54 AM »
The idea is that you're not asked, if you could have gained Changeling directly and (not) doing so didn't trigger anything. The opponent obviously has to be asked as they didn't choose the other card over Changeling.