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Author Topic: How Donate is intended after last card bought?  (Read 423 times)

Offline Ranna156

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How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« on: 14 January 2018, 10:25:33 PM »
The Donate event says to trash as many cards as you want after your turn and you take 8 debt (or pay it). Does anyone know what the intent was after the last card is bought (either 3 pile, Province, or Colony) if you buy it? It seems to me that you should still be allowed to trash any cards you wish either to get rid of curses or silver/gold when bandit fort is in play, or wolf den to get rid of singles, or to just get some extra points if Tomb is on the board. Anyone know or have thoughts on this. I think it would make certain boards definitely more interesting it it was allowed.

Offline Ingix

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #1 on: 14 January 2018, 10:32:29 PM »
It's rather hard to decide what was "intended", especially with so many cards around. I think Donate's effect had to be moved to "between turns" because of the interaction with Possession. As such, it simply doesn't happen any more after a game ending condition is satisfied when a turn is over. Same with a Mission or Outpost turn, etc.

Offline Ranna156

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #2 on: 14 January 2018, 11:20:32 PM »
I understand Mission and Outpost not being played since they specifically state to take another turn and if the game is over there are no other turns to be had. Possession is all about the next person's turn and not yours, so I don't know why that would have any effect on Donate, since if you buy it when playing a Possession you take the debt but don't get the Donate effect since it isn't your turn. I just think when you buy it and the last card you should still be able to take the effect of it since it is supposed to happen after your turn and I would consider it technically a part of your overall turn (getting the effect). Maybe they should add a note to it to specify if game is 'over' you can still take the effect. That way Possession doesn't interfere with it etc.

I get it and it is what the card says, I just think it would be better if you could actually use Donate after last card is bought is all and was wondering what DonaldX's intention with it was. LOL

I think he comes on here occasionally (doesn't he or are they just rando's using his name) and maybe he will see this and adjust things if the intent was still to be able to play it after last card.

Offline Ingix

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #3 on: 15 January 2018, 12:25:54 AM »
Yes, AFAIK the DonaldX posting here is the 'real' one. Maybe he will comment.

Offline Stef

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #4 on: 15 January 2018, 09:45:20 AM »
Donald X. (at least the one with "Dominion Designer" under his name on this forum) is indeed the designer of Dominion.

The rules around Donate imply that you do not get the effect if the game ends after your turn.
Donald knows this and this is how he intended the card to work. That's why it says so explicitly in the "rules clarifications". (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Donate)

Offline Ranna156

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #5 on: 15 January 2018, 04:56:01 PM »
Thanks Stef.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #6 on: 15 January 2018, 10:50:00 PM »
I just followed the link, to read the explanation under Donate.

End-game conditions are checked at the end of each player's turn. So if a player buys Donate and then empties the Provinces, the Donate effect will not occur.

Conversely, if two piles are empty and a player buys Donate, and uses its effect to trash Hunting Grounds, thus emptying the Estates, the game will not end until the end of the next player's turn.


The first one makes it clear what Stef said.  If the game is over at the end of a turn, then no Donate effect.  And the card makes it clear that its effect happens after the turn [is over].  But, given this, the second Rules Clarification seems bizarre to me.  I play Donate, trash Hunting Grounds, empty the third pile of Estates . . . BUT, that does NOT end the game???  The next player gets an extra turn???? 

What is the rationale for this exception?  Are there other edge cases where a game should be over (Prov empty; 3 piles empty) but another player gets an extra turn?

Offline Ingix

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #7 on: 15 January 2018, 11:03:33 PM »
I just followed the link, to read the explanation under Donate.
...
Conversely, if two piles are empty and a player buys Donate, and uses its effect to trash Hunting Grounds, thus emptying the Estates, the game will not end until the end of the next player's turn.

But, given this, the second Rules Clarification seems bizarre to me.  I play Donate, trash Hunting Grounds, empty the third pile of Estates . . . BUT, that does NOT end the game???  The next player gets an extra turn???? 

What is the rationale for this exception?  Are there other edge cases where a game should be over (Prov empty; 3 piles empty) but another player gets an extra turn?

This is not an exception. If the game ahould be over is checked *once a turn has ended*. Then and only then is it checked if the Province or Colony pile is empty or 3 piles are empty. If this condition is true at any other time, it doesn't matter.

If you empty a pile, but manage to put at least one card back into it before the turn ends (say with Ambassador, or an Encampment, or you exchange a Page for its upgrade), it is irrelevant that it was empty. Now that same also applies for the time between turns. That you emptied 3 piles in the time between turns doesn't concern the game. The check was done at the end of your turn (which was before the Donate effect), so the game continues until the next time that check is due, which is at the end of your opponent's next turn.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: How Donate is intended after last card bought?
« Reply #8 on: 15 January 2018, 11:10:12 PM »
ah, that actually makes perfect sense!  :-)