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Author Topic: Offensive Language in Chat  (Read 2113 times)

Offline sudhish86

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #15 on: 17 April 2018, 06:52:25 PM »
You cannot beat those trolls by cooperating (trying to get a win when they slow-play). When you do that, you are giving them the satisfaction that they beat you. They may not have beaten you in the 'who got the recorded win in the database' battle, but they have beaten you in the 'who got to enjoy the game time better' battle. The latter is what they want, not the former.

In addition, once they are identified, their (free) accounts are banned and their rated games invalidated. So if you resign and blacklist them, you will haven beaten them in both battles. The latter (time enjoyment) immediatly, and the former (database win) later. The bad experience will be short and have no rating consequences.
1.Can you explain how this is so? I didn't connect the dots. How do you not lose points by resigning? I also have had people slowplay me and I usually stick it out if I don't have anything else going on.

2.Also, these players are not trying to enjoy their time, like most people. These players strictly want to see their rating be higher. I have played these kinds of people in other games. They don't enjoy their time. They have an inward insecurity that they shallowly cope with by looking at their rating. The last time I got slowplayed, the guy told me to go die after I stuck it out for 20 minutes. They definitely hate it when you stick it out.

3.Lastly, what happens when someone gets blacklisted? Simply can't get matched up with them in the matchmaking? A guy said he was going to blacklist me after I denied him some undos....

Offline jsh

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #16 on: 17 April 2018, 08:43:46 PM »
Please blacklist these users instead of worrying about the why. It isn't worth the stress.

Offline JW

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #17 on: 17 April 2018, 08:47:14 PM »
Quote
In addition, once they are identified, their (free) accounts are banned and their rated games invalidated. So if you resign and blacklist them, you will haven beaten them in both battles. The latter (time enjoyment) immediately, and the former (database win) later. The bad experience will be short and have no rating consequences.

1.Can you explain how this is so? I didn't connect the dots. How do you not lose points by resigning? I also have had people slowplay me and I usually stick it out if I don't have anything else going on.

2.Also, these players are not trying to enjoy their time, like most people. These players strictly want to see their rating be higher. I have played these kinds of people in other games. They don't enjoy their time. They have an inward insecurity that they shallowly cope with by looking at their rating. The last time I got slowplayed, the guy told me to go die after I stuck it out for 20 minutes. They definitely hate it when you stick it out.

People who do stuff like this will get banned pretty quickly. When someone is banned, all of the rated games that they have played are also invalidated. So your rating will end up the same regardless of the outcome of your game against these trolls.

Offline sudhish86

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #18 on: 18 April 2018, 02:25:19 AM »
Ok. gotcha. thanks.

How do these people get banned? I mean, how does a moderator know when and who to ban? I got blacklisted supposedly three days ago for not granting undos. Am I in trouble because I'm ons someone's list? That seems abusable.

Are we allowed to post cheater-threads?

Offline jsh

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #19 on: 18 April 2018, 04:42:56 AM »
Ok. gotcha. thanks.

How do these people get banned? I mean, how does a moderator know when and who to ban? I got blacklisted supposedly three days ago for not granting undos. Am I in trouble because I'm ons someone's list? That seems abusable.

Are we allowed to post cheater-threads?

Bans happen based on compounding evidence or me/Stef just happening to know someone is a bad user. You aren't going to get banned from one person blacklisting you. Do not post threads publicly naming anybody. Just use the blacklist feature if you encounter someone you do not want to play with (for any reason) and move on. It isn't your job to ensure anyone meets justice.

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #20 on: 22 April 2018, 07:31:28 PM »
Ok, that's not his job. But that would be mods' one.
Either mods declare that insulting is allowed, or mods ban all people that do not abide strictly to the rules.
The two cannot exist simultaneously.


Offline jsh

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #21 on: 22 April 2018, 11:10:35 PM »
Ok, that's not his job. But that would be mods' one.
Either mods declare that insulting is allowed, or mods ban all people that do not abide strictly to the rules.
The two cannot exist simultaneously.

I don't have a system or the time to know about every single instance of this. I'm a volunteer. Right now, users can simply blacklist people they don't want to play with. It isn't a perfect system but the system does work. My advice is not to worry about awful people being awful to others when you can put them in your personal blacklist and never see them again.

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #22 on: 23 April 2018, 01:55:09 PM »
Ok, that's not his job. But that would be mods' one.
Either mods declare that insulting is allowed, or mods ban all people that do not abide strictly to the rules.
The two cannot exist simultaneously.

I don't have a system or the time to know about every single instance of this. I'm a volunteer. Right now, users can simply blacklist people they don't want to play with. It isn't a perfect system but the system does work. My advice is not to worry about awful people being awful to others when you can put them in your personal blacklist and never see them again.

Well, this actually means you wash your hands of it.
Being paid or not is not a good reason to refuse to bear a responsability.

Or, easier, you are communicating that, yes, users are able to cuss or use bad words, or insult, and they will stay on unbanned, the worst case scenario is they lose the chance to face again that one player.
But if I was to insult someone, not playing against him anymore would be the lesser of my problems. Probably I would blacklist myself that user first, because if I am lead to insult someone, surely I won't like playing again with him.

That said, the villain wins in this scenario. Which I don't like much. Moreover considering people is PAYING ACTUAL MONEY to play this game. And when one pays, one demands.

Offline Stef

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #23 on: 23 April 2018, 02:31:14 PM »
Ok, that's not his job. But that would be mods' one.
Either mods declare that insulting is allowed, or mods ban all people that do not abide strictly to the rules.
The two cannot exist simultaneously.

I don't have a system or the time to know about every single instance of this. I'm a volunteer. Right now, users can simply blacklist people they don't want to play with. It isn't a perfect system but the system does work. My advice is not to worry about awful people being awful to others when you can put them in your personal blacklist and never see them again.

Well, this actually means you wash your hands of it.
Being paid or not is not a good reason to refuse to bear a responsability.

Or, easier, you are communicating that, yes, users are able to cuss or use bad words, or insult, and they will stay on unbanned, the worst case scenario is they lose the chance to face again that one player.
But if I was to insult someone, not playing against him anymore would be the lesser of my problems. Probably I would blacklist myself that user first, because if I am lead to insult someone, surely I won't like playing again with him.

That said, the villain wins in this scenario. Which I don't like much. Moreover considering people is PAYING ACTUAL MONEY to play this game. And when one pays, one demands.

Please leave jsh alone. He is doing a great job, I'm grateful for whatever he does. He is dealing with plenty of shit already as a mod.

The fact that not everyone violating a rule gets immediately banned or punished in some way does not imply the rules doesn't exist, nor does that make the system invalid. In fact, that is what makes the system work as a whole. There are plenty of examples of countries that tried to enforce every rule on all its citizens. I wouldn't want to live in one.

There is no villain 'winning' in this scenario. People yelling in chat are generally speaking very frustrated individuals with more problems IRL then you are willing to imagine. I don't envy them. Yes there is a line they can cross and then they get banned.

My advice to you, assuming you're one of the nice people that sometimes encounter a frustrated individual, is to try to spend as little time with them as possible. Blacklist & move on works very well for that. Any time you spend on this forum or anywhere else typing up some report is only adding to your own frustration. If they really cross a line you can report and who knows maybe they get banned. But another persons pain or punishment will never make you truly happy. And maybe before you speak about bearing responsibility and people paying actual money you should reevaluate your own situation.

In the end this is the internet and you'll sometimes encounter someone you'd rather not. Speaking from my personal experience, the dominion community is doing way better then the average community out there. Yesterday I played ~30 games against ~20 different opponents without a single incident.

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #24 on: 23 April 2018, 04:24:51 PM »
Ok, that's not his job. But that would be mods' one.
Either mods declare that insulting is allowed, or mods ban all people that do not abide strictly to the rules.
The two cannot exist simultaneously.

I don't have a system or the time to know about every single instance of this. I'm a volunteer. Right now, users can simply blacklist people they don't want to play with. It isn't a perfect system but the system does work. My advice is not to worry about awful people being awful to others when you can put them in your personal blacklist and never see them again.

Well, this actually means you wash your hands of it.
Being paid or not is not a good reason to refuse to bear a responsability.

Or, easier, you are communicating that, yes, users are able to cuss or use bad words, or insult, and they will stay on unbanned, the worst case scenario is they lose the chance to face again that one player.
But if I was to insult someone, not playing against him anymore would be the lesser of my problems. Probably I would blacklist myself that user first, because if I am lead to insult someone, surely I won't like playing again with him.

That said, the villain wins in this scenario. Which I don't like much. Moreover considering people is PAYING ACTUAL MONEY to play this game. And when one pays, one demands.

Please leave jsh alone. He is doing a great job, I'm grateful for whatever he does. He is dealing with plenty of shit already as a mod.

The fact that not everyone violating a rule gets immediately banned or punished in some way does not imply the rules doesn't exist, nor does that make the system invalid. In fact, that is what makes the system work as a whole. There are plenty of examples of countries that tried to enforce every rule on all its citizens. I wouldn't want to live in one.

There is no villain 'winning' in this scenario. People yelling in chat are generally speaking very frustrated individuals with more problems IRL then you are willing to imagine. I don't envy them. Yes there is a line they can cross and then they get banned.

My advice to you, assuming you're one of the nice people that sometimes encounter a frustrated individual, is to try to spend as little time with them as possible. Blacklist & move on works very well for that. Any time you spend on this forum or anywhere else typing up some report is only adding to your own frustration. If they really cross a line you can report and who knows maybe they get banned. But another persons pain or punishment will never make you truly happy. And maybe before you speak about bearing responsibility and people paying actual money you should reevaluate your own situation.

In the end this is the internet and you'll sometimes encounter someone you'd rather not. Speaking from my personal experience, the dominion community is doing way better then the average community out there. Yesterday I played ~30 games against ~20 different opponents without a single incident.

Well I could NOT disagree more.
Your politics is: if someone behaves in a bad way, just let him/her be.
This way that person will always behave in a bad way.
You make examples with countries.
In every country:
- if there is a law and you break it, you are punished
- if you have a bad behaviour, you are reported, and nobody does anything, that means there is NO law preventing you from

Which is exactly my point.
EITHER people is allowed to insult
OR mods should do something.

People unallowed to insult but mods doing nothing, these two events cannot live simultaneously.

People PAY for this game, should be treated fairly.

Offline Rabid

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #25 on: 23 April 2018, 05:14:54 PM »
dextrapunch I find your forum post to be insulting.
Should you be punished?

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #26 on: 23 April 2018, 06:05:24 PM »
dextrapunch I find your forum post to be insulting.
Should you be punished?

If I effectively insulted someone or used bad words, yes.
But since this is just a pointless provocation, and I am just stating facts, not.

In my country, also, if you go to the police or somewhere to denounce something, and that something is CLEARLY nothing, you get a fine.
Which could apply in your case.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #27 on: 23 April 2018, 07:59:00 PM »
Having a rule that isn't well-defined is, in practice, the same as not having a rule at all. It seems difficult to define what "good behavior" in the chat would be, but I suppose you could do it. Either way, it's not defined right now. You probably need a dirty word list.

Having a rule that isn't enforced is also pretty much the same as not having the rule at all. It's probably tough to enforce this rule without having the client do it for you (censoring the chat when a dirty word is detected, then sending a report after a certain threshold to the moderators, for example) but it certainly isn't being enforced now.

...and having rules that aren't well-defined and aren't enforced is going to lead to unhappy people and unhelpful discussions about it. I would recommend either defining and enforcing the rule or not having it at all.

Realistically, I think the option to choose is the option of not having the rule because that's much easier and this is the internet, but that's just my opinion.

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #28 on: 23 April 2018, 09:10:50 PM »
Having a rule that isn't well-defined is, in practice, the same as not having a rule at all. It seems difficult to define what "good behavior" in the chat would be, but I suppose you could do it. Either way, it's not defined right now. You probably need a dirty word list.

Having a rule that isn't enforced is also pretty much the same as not having the rule at all. It's probably tough to enforce this rule without having the client do it for you (censoring the chat when a dirty word is detected, then sending a report after a certain threshold to the moderators, for example) but it certainly isn't being enforced now.

...and having rules that aren't well-defined and aren't enforced is going to lead to unhappy people and unhelpful discussions about it. I would recommend either defining and enforcing the rule or not having it at all.

Realistically, I think the option to choose is the option of not having the rule because that's much easier and this is the internet, but that's just my opinion.

This is far more reasonable to me than the previous messages.
Still "this is the internet" isn't to me a valid argument, because until "this is the internet" is an argument for behaving unfairly, rudely, or the like, people who enjoy this kind of behaviours will indulge in them.

Offline dextrapunch

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Re: Offensive Language in Chat
« Reply #29 on: 23 April 2018, 09:16:56 PM »
I am however having the vague and unpleasant feeling that cussing, using bad words or insulting is a somewhat trying to be "safeguarded" here, or I fail to understand why people would allow it and oppose having severe measures against who does this.