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Author Topic: Trolls  (Read 1693 times)

Offline Seprix

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #15 on: 18 June 2018, 10:26:04 PM »
If I do pay you can't kick me out.
Luckily enough I never paid and I am already rocking on my new account which is perfectly identical to the previous.

Clearly not true, you broke the terms of service and the owner has every right to remove you for it. But you know this already.

Also, real trolls don't admit they're trolls. Congrats on being an unsuccessful troll, newbie.

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #16 on: 18 June 2018, 10:41:27 PM »
Off course people can get banned for what they say in chat. You have to be pretty foul because I tolerate a lot, but yes there are limits.

We are not talking about people who are expressing an opinion I don't agree with here, but people who are 100% clearly out to insult their opponents. I don't want them here, in the game, or anywhere else in my life.

"insulting your opponent" is not part of any valid strategy on this site. I don't care if you think there are other games where it is valid, here it is not.
I have no complaints about this policy.

It would be great if you could mute opponents, if you can't; it's certainly not a priority though. Okay I am spectating, hey markus and sicomatic are playing. If you just type 10 lines into chat, I mean "." is enough, you know, and then scroll up, then you won't see anything the other player says, it doesn't automatically scroll. So there's that anyway.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #17 on: 19 June 2018, 06:06:39 AM »
We get the oddest threads in this forum.  :)
Someone is trolling a thread about trolls.  How meta!

Legally-speaking, I think any "I paid so I can't be banned." argument is on shaky ground.  If I were running a site like this; I assume I'd give a pro-rated refund in such cases.  But maybe not for the worst offenders--where there had been multiple warnings, etc.

I sometimes feel like I'm the only normal person on the internet.   ;D

Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #18 on: 19 June 2018, 07:51:00 AM »
I strongly enforce the very fact that psychology IS a strategy to win.
So, trolling your opponent with sentences like
"Feeling lucky huh?"
or
"5/2 with no "4-costing" cards? What a lucky start"
or
"I am sorry you cannot defeat me"

and the like, break the opponent's focus on the game and give you an advantage.
I mean, I easily took care of players ranked 54+ who EFFECTIVELY had lucky starts with some simple comments put here and there. I noticed that usually when the player starts bothering replying, he felt into the trap.

99% do not read the forum, so I don't mind spoiling all here.

Muting the chat is removing a component from the game, I would have less interest playing with one of my most successful strategies blocked.

In tournaments there is nothing that denies you your speech freedom.

On the other hand, I find it funny that I have been banned from my later account, just for having lost my temper ONCE and having used the f word, while I read that there are even people making fun of handicapped people. I troll as a strategy, but I'd never insult women, black people, handicapped peole, gay, or any minority. There is still respect, even within trolling. But, as I already said, double standards here are not a novelty.

Offline blamelewis

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #19 on: 19 June 2018, 11:59:53 AM »
Good grief, you *are* so ethical aren't you - you don't insult x, y, z... but a few posts ago you were calling someone a moron? Very respectful indeed...

Trolling - I beg your pardon "psychology" - may be a strategy, but it's a foul, antisocial strategy - purposefully setting out to upset the other player, and you shouldn't act all upset when you're banned for such abusive behaviour.

And to call it a limitation of your free speech fundamentally misunderstands how free speech works. You are completely free to speak horribly to other players, but the owners of this site are not obliged to provide you with a platform to do so. They are also free to make the site safe and comfortable for their users.


Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #20 on: 19 June 2018, 01:13:24 PM »
What does make you think that I am upset?
I am totally not, I made a new account and I am in queue while typing this message.

I just think, and believe me I do, some things, and I will make a list for shortening

1) I strongly believe that calling someone "moron" or "you have asperger disease" is something on two entirely different levels. You don't. I accept your point of view and I disagree.

2) You think my strategy is "foul". I think it's just another strategy. Everybody has his/her own. I don't find it abusive, so I am pretty surprised to be banned. Not that it changes my day, I now know that you are banned for getting on the moderator nerves, I thought it was something more strict and regulated and not depending on which mood the moderator wakes up with, or wheter he had a bad day or not, so that's ok, now I know, that's it.

3) When you think that I can make some user feeling less "safe" because I say something in chat, probably either you think I have magical powers, or you totally misjudge other people. I am not in any case able to obtain the IP or the whereabouts of anybody, so their safeness is not at risk. I am very very surprised you may think differently.

Oh, my turn, somebody is waiting for me :D

Offline AdamH

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #21 on: 19 June 2018, 03:02:46 PM »
I know I'm taking a risk by feeding the troll here, but oh well.

Dominion was a tabletop game before it was anything online, and that has imposed a lot of restrictions on online Dominion that most other online games don't have. A lot of those restrictions are mechanics of the game that are much less elegant when implemented online (I have to stop my turn to wait for you to discard to my Militia before I can continue, even though I would never do that IRL because it almost never matters and in the .1% of the cases it does, then sure I'll just wait) and autoplay can help in some cases, but like most of the features that this client desperately needs, it's not finished. But even so, Dominion online will always be a bit clunky no matter what just because it was designed as a tabletop game and not an online game.

...but then there are other artificial restrictions, like the model that the base game should be free and anyone can play with expansions if they have the right opponents; or things as simple as DXV's influence on what kind of behavior is acceptable in chat. The voice of authority comes down and all of a sudden there's this idea that since DXV wants it a certain way, that's the way it has to be no matter what. I'm not going to pretend that I have the kind of pull that could challenge every single one of these things, but muting the chat? I disagree pretty hard there.

This is a game on the internet, if I want to play that game, I have to have a chat window open where my opponent can write whatever they want and that has to be on my monitor no matter what. I can't disable the chat, I can't mute my opponent. Mods can try and ban people for doing things they don't like, but that will never stop it from happening; and currently the only tool that users have to deal with it is to blacklist them at the end of the game and move on. Not only is this never going to completely solve the problem, but it allows grey areas like this where a user is supposed to either finish out a rated game and deal with what they feel is abuse in the chat, or resign and blacklist the person, report it, and hope that the moderators subjective opinion will be good enough to make it so their rating doesn't suffer. This situation is going to make it really hard for people to take the game seriously on a competitive level.

When you play IRL, you get to pick who you play with, so deciding not to play with certain people is a solution that works. That doesn't work online. The users need tools to deal with what they feel is abuse in the chat because the current system will never eliminate the case I described where the users are powerless to deal with the abuse. The current solution is not good enough, and if the amount of complaints and topics here about that isn't enough, just think of how many people are experiencing that on the client and don't even know this place exists. I imagine most of them just leave and don't come back.

For the record, the behaviors that our troll is saying he actually did, even including saying the F word, are something I don't think deserve a ban by themselves. Different people from different groups are going to play each other and just because peoples' sense of humor or gamesmanship is different doesn't seem like it deserves a ban in my book.

Yes, there are double standards here, but I don't think anybody cares. Mostly because there's nothing anyone can do about it. Sorry.

It seems like a pretty poor use of resources to devote more time and energy into manually blocking people when adding a feature to let the users decide what's OK for them or not will not only do a better job, but also probably amount to less work in dealing with actual trolls. Ignoring them is likely to get them to stop naturally rather than having a system that promotes giving them the attention they want.

Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #22 on: 19 June 2018, 05:10:16 PM »
I personally have started the troll account after complaining a lot for being insulted and seeing the players that insulted me were still playing after.

When I asked I was answered:

"Do resign. Report game #. That game won't count on ranking."

And when I said "And the abusive player?"

"We don't ban people for that, blacklist, if he does this everytime, everybody will blacklist him and he won't be able to do it again".

That is what I have been answered. For many that's enough.
I felt it wasn't enough.

So I said to myself "If I lose temper being provoked (or even insulted) is that the case that maybe I can do the same and win some games I wouldn't win anyway else?"

So I dropped my account and started a troll account.
I was HONEST, it was in the username itself. I think they will black it, but it was I_ANNOY_PEOPLE so if you read my username you can simply resign and blacklist me, because I said what I was going to do IN THE VERY BEGINNING.

That said, I think the ban helped me. A lot of people who have blackilsted "I_ANNOY_PEOPLE" haven't blacklisted me with my new account, so I can play again with them one more time. It's nice.

THe ban, to me, helped more than harmed.

Plus, IRL, there is NOTHING in tounnaments at least as much as I know that prevent people from talking during a tournament match. Only Magic the Gathering enforces strict rules on that and you can recevie a yellow card, but I believe that is unfair. My 2 cents.

As I said, I am a troll DURING the games, not outside.
Here, I am here reasoning with you for what is best for the community.
If people think that the best way is muting chats or something like that, I'll revert to my old gamestyle, knowing that if a troll wants to provoke me, I can mute him/her.

Last: I have been trolled many times even when I had the troll account and facing a 39/40 ranked player I didn't use the troll approach because I thought I was winning anyway. They started with "Lucky, huh?" and the same things I say, so I believe I am not the only one doing this, but I am the only one having the guts to admit it.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #23 on: 19 June 2018, 05:39:05 PM »
Plus, IRL, there is NOTHING in tounnaments at least as much as I know that prevent people from talking during a tournament match. Only Magic the Gathering enforces strict rules on that and you can recevie a yellow card, but I believe that is unfair. My 2 cents.

I won't disagree with anything you said except for this. I've run eight IRL tournaments and I've been very successful. If you did any of the stuff you said in this thread, even the stuff I don't mind online, I would just kick you out of all of my tournaments. Maybe I'd warn you first, but maybe I wouldn't.

The tournament organizer has complete authority over what happens in their tournaments, and my tournaments have an atmosphere that I've worked hard to start and maintain. Everyone who has ever showed up at any of my tournaments has been super-friendly which is a lot of why they have been successful. My main objective (really my only objective) is for people to have fun so I will quickly end something that I think takes away from that.

But online is a different beast. The whole point is that you get automatched with people you don't know, so eventually everyone is going to run into someone they don't like. If I was in the right mood I might even enjoy what you have claimed to say here but you can't really expect everyone to like you.

You may not believe it, but there are actually people out there who don't even like me! Ridiculous, I know, but it's true.

Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #24 on: 19 June 2018, 07:04:47 PM »
I think slamming somebody out a tournament (usually you pay for being in) just for some annoying comments here and there is a bit fascist, but ok, that's my POV, your tournaments your rules, probably you live too far from me.

Another thing: I personally own various Dominion Expansions IRL. I find it pretty nasty to pay here for things I have already paid IRL.

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #25 on: 19 June 2018, 07:45:04 PM »
The voice of authority comes down and all of a sudden there's this idea that since DXV wants it a certain way, that's the way it has to be no matter what.
Well if Stef and I both want the same particular thing, odds are that's how it will be. I try to listen to reason, or the cries of the masses, but I mean, I like what I like. It's good to be king. I know you don't like that perspective; that's never been enough to change it.

I personally swear like a sailor, but that doesn't mean I feel the need to impose that on automatch opponents.

This is a game on the internet, if I want to play that game, I have to have a chat window open where my opponent can write whatever they want and that has to be on my monitor no matter what.
Magic Duels never had chat. So far Magic Arena doesn't have it. I can't help but think that that was their one-step solution to "what if people are cussing in chat, how much of our lives do we want to spend on this."

I value chat a lot, but I mean, I have played online games with no ability to chat. Someone won and everything.

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #26 on: 19 June 2018, 07:46:26 PM »
Another thing: I personally own various Dominion Expansions IRL. I find it pretty nasty to pay here for things I have already paid IRL.
You'll have to worker harder than that to troll me. Try: "you sure spend a lot of time on Dominion forums," or maybe, "did you guys actually playtest Rebuild?"

Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #27 on: 19 June 2018, 08:44:09 PM »
Another thing: I personally own various Dominion Expansions IRL. I find it pretty nasty to pay here for things I have already paid IRL.
You'll have to worker harder than that to troll me. Try: "you sure spend a lot of time on Dominion forums," or maybe, "did you guys actually playtest Rebuild?"

I have my Dominion Alchemy Box just here, barcode #8033772893299 and I am ready anytime to post a picture of it in the pose or with any common object on top of that to show that I really own it.

Sorry to disappoint you Donald.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #28 on: 19 June 2018, 10:36:07 PM »
Troll,
I don't think Donald X was suggesting that you were lying when you said that you own physical expansion sets.  I think (obviously, my opinion only) that he was saying that your point that "It sucks to pay online for an expansion when you've already spent money on the IRL expansion." was a lame troll.  Mostly because you, and I, and countless other people have already whined (gently) about that--or about paying for a "lifetime" subscription on the old site and being screwed on that--and so it has essentially zero impact on Donald X's day.

Obviously, if I'm wrong, then DX can correct me.

Offline DominionTroll

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Re: Trolls
« Reply #29 on: 19 June 2018, 10:44:35 PM »
Ok, sorry I didn't know that! :)

I only plaied IRL + at a site, I don't remember the name, but it used other pictures not the original on the cards, and it had very rough graphics, plus it was completely free.