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Author Topic: This community is broken  (Read 2126 times)

Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #15 on: 01 August 2018, 01:55:56 AM »
Happeend AGAIN.

I lose by mere 3 points to a player who keeps playing even if he had the coins to buy the last card.
He buys two cards: the last one and a totally useless no-victory-point-awarding card.

Then I tell him during his last turn that he could end the game and he knows it and I will blacklist him for that.
His reply is "not my fault if you plaid SHIT"

I think this is a double abusive behaviour.
Abuse 1: you keep on playing when you can end the game, leading me to resign to end it quickly.
Abuse 2: use of the word SHIT in chatroom.

I'm sick of this.
I'll be quitting soon if nothing changes.

Offline Rabid

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #16 on: 01 August 2018, 10:44:43 AM »
It is sometimes quicker to buy a random card, than it is to move mouse to the end turn button.

Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #17 on: 25 August 2018, 09:24:19 PM »
I am really sick of the people here.
With one last province to buy, and having already 8 in hand, this player went on remodelling stuff and the like.
I really have grown a real hate towards these people, and since the game is becoming toxic because of problem people, I think I will be done with this server soon.

Offline jsh

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #18 on: 25 August 2018, 09:45:12 PM »
In other words, summer's ending and you have to go back to school?

Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #19 on: 26 August 2018, 11:01:43 AM »
In other words, summer's ending and you have to go back to school?

Comments like this one are evidence I am right.

Offline Ingix

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #20 on: 28 August 2018, 09:38:15 AM »
I agree that reply by jsh was uncalled for and not helping. Demeaning somebody by 'accusing' them of a perceived younger age is a standard 'bad' rethoric method that shouldn't be used in an argument.

OTOH, if you say that you are "sick of the people here" and have "grown a real hate towards these people", you might elicit a response from "the people here" that is also not just rosy.

I can understand your frustrations with some of the behaviour you described. But if you know you are loosing, then having to wait a few more seconds for the opponent to finish in his way doesn't seem much of a problem, as you can resign (and then blacklist).

Again, I don't want to see anyone leave the game because they see the community generally as broken/toxic. It just happens that my personal experience (which is probably different from those of a non-paying player, and of course also not representative of all paying players) is that the community has the usual outliers, but generally works.

Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #21 on: 28 August 2018, 11:22:08 AM »
I agree that reply by jsh was uncalled for and not helping. Demeaning somebody by 'accusing' them of a perceived younger age is a standard 'bad' rethoric method that shouldn't be used in an argument.

One thing that I perceive, both here in the forum and in the game itself, is that abuses are not punished. In another forum this behaviour would have led to at least a public warning.
I feel like moderation here is somewhat passive, like as if mods are simply very afraid of losing paying players, so they have a very special treatment or rules of their own.

OTOH, if you say that you are "sick of the people here" and have "grown a real hate towards these people", you might elicit a response from "the people here" that is also not just rosy.

I can understand your frustrations with some of the behaviour you described. But if you know you are loosing, then having to wait a few more seconds for the opponent to finish in his way doesn't seem much of a problem, as you can resign (and then blacklist).

This is actually what I do. But is it that possible that I play online games since 20 years and this is the first game in which my blacklist hosts more than 40 players?
I mean, I have new additions every single day I play!

Again, I don't want to see anyone leave the game because they see the community generally as broken/toxic. It just happens that my personal experience (which is probably different from those of a non-paying player, and of course also not representative of all paying players) is that the community has the usual outliers, but generally works.

I agree that different people have different perceptions. On the other hand some little consideration that little or no moderation of undesiderable behaviours can lead to a slightly toxic community should be held in account.

Offline AdamH

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #22 on: 28 August 2018, 01:21:41 PM »
Say whatever you want about Fastman, he has some excellent points in his last post and these are real issues.

Jsh has acted in an official capacity at many points in the past. Ironically, his contributions to the software were mostly directed at removing trolls from the community. So this message and the lack of official followup regarding it pretty strongly indicates that Shuffleit doesn't give a crap about its community, which I would say is accurate.

Offline Stef

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #23 on: 28 August 2018, 02:37:31 PM »
We have different views about keeping a community healthy. You seem to think the solution is in punishment; I fundamentally do not believe in it.

If I would, I would have removed Fastman (aka DominionTroll, TheAnnoyer, ...) from this forum some time ago, and probably Adam along with him. Both of you say something useful from time to time, but in my personal opinion it just doesn't make up for the negativity you produce along with it. I also can't believe that it is an attitude that helps you more then it hurts you in the rest of your life.

Feel free to continue doing whatever you like doing though, my belief in free speech is much stronger then my desire to control. The fact that I don't respond to many of these discussions does not imply that I don't care - I just don't really see a merit in having these kinds of arguments over the internet. Criticizing the volunteers is a good way to call me out, or so it seems.

Personally I do enjoy playing games against this community a lot; talking on dominion discords is also good fun and almost exclusively with nice people.

Offline AdamH

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #24 on: 28 August 2018, 03:00:54 PM »
I'm going to put all of the personal things aside because they are irrelevant.

1. So in your opinion, do you think what jsh said is OK?

2. Your experience interacting with the community is vastly different from the experience of a new player. The experience of a new player is extremely important because it allows you to get more money, which allows you to hire more people to finish implementing the software. I imagine you aren't paying to use your own software so I'm really not sure how your own experience is relevant.

3. However you choose to interpret the positivity or negativity of what I say, does this mean that you're just ignoring the feedback I give on your software? If someone has a bad experience with your software because they've paid for it and there's a problem (the lag has been absolutely brutal lately and I just can't play at all over the past several weeks, for example) then if they're a bit salty when they tell you about it, does that mean you just throw it away? I want this software to be good because I want to play Dominion; I want you to succeed because it benefits me. Do you really think I want you to fail?

If you aren't going to listen to my feedback because you don't like me, then just ban me. I have better things to do with my time.

Offline Ingix

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #25 on: 28 August 2018, 04:17:02 PM »
One thing that I perceive, both here in the forum and in the game itself, is that abuses are not punished. In another forum this behaviour would have led to at least a public warning.
I feel like moderation here is somewhat passive, like as if mods are simply very afraid of losing paying players, so they have a very special treatment or rules of their own.

Now let's put things in perspective. He called you a (college) kid. He didn't use racial or sexual slurs, or suggested any kind of harm should come to you. That's what I'd call abuse, and have been sent (few) examples of as moderator. jsh was unfriendly which he shouldn't have been. I don't think however any punishment for that would be appropriate (you might disagree, of course).

But is it that possible that I play online games since 20 years and this is the first game in which my blacklist hosts more than 40 players?
I mean, I have new additions every single day I play!

Of course that is not a good experience. But from the incidents you describe, it seems you blacklist players for what I'd call annoying behaviour. That is your right, of course, but I fail to see how it translates into a generally abusive/toxic environment.

It may still not be good for the community when many players consider many others annoying, but that's what happens when you have strangers meet! One player wants a deep match and lots of thinking, and another wants to kill 10 min before the next meeting.


Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #26 on: 28 August 2018, 04:30:39 PM »
If I would, I would have removed Fastman (aka DominionTroll, TheAnnoyer, ...) from this forum some time ago, and probably Adam along with him. Both of you say something useful from time to time, but in my personal opinion it just doesn't make up for the negativity you produce along with it. I also can't believe that it is an attitude that helps you more then it hurts you in the rest of your life.

I think that relating a forum username to an account while in this forum as soon as you write "xxxdominionplayer did that" you blank the name, is a very plain crystal clear use of double standards. Users can't do it, you shouldn't do that in first instance.

I have been, and I still am, in charge of many forums and Facebook groups and this over the past 20 years, and believe me when I say that I learnt two things about being an admin.
While 1) you do not allow people questioning what you do because you can put the word "final" everytime everywhere, and that will give you authority 2) you don't do something you forbid other people to, because that will weaken your authoritativeness. And if you want people to populate your forum and game, you will need both Authority AND Authoritativeness, but relying on the first only will have people flee and quit, relying more on the second will have this a more healthy community.

That said, yep, I started the troll account in order to see how much and how good the "**shol* control system" was by faking to be one. Actually I have trolled or annoyed people just a few of times, and zero in the last two months, I don't find it entertaining. If I were able to change the account name to something different I would have.

On the other hand, my blacklist is really full. Problem is not just only people having the tendency to teabag. They really do that. There is aboslutely NO need to teabag your opponent. If I can buy the last curse and that will end the game in victory for me, I don't even start the turn. I end actions buy last curse and greet my opponent.

But that's not just the point, because if it was only teabagging I would have 15/20 people in my blacklist. Not 50.
There are people slowplaying on purpose. People cussing and insulting. People calling you lucky when you aren't or people unable to admit a game ended out of pure luck when it actually did (though I don't blacklist for this reason and I find it pretty negative to call out the luck factor, except when it's totally manifest, which happens.

One other thing: there are people doing something different on a different browser window while you wait their turn for playing. This is mostly annoying. More than anything.
This could be also fixed by changing the timeout to a lower value than 4 minutes if they haven't focus on the Dominion window

My time is precious. If you find out people stealing from you does this enrage you? Surely it does.
Stealing time is even worse. You can work out or win your money back but you will never get your time back.
People robbing you of your time, while you are playing and waiting for them to play, are toxic.

One time can happen, two can happen, but too often it is manifest that people are doing something entirely different while you play against them. This behaviour should be discouraged in some way.

So while you treat me most as a negative person which put only negative thoughts, I actually think I gave you something entirely different to think about. And since you seem to be an intelligent person, you surely have already started.

Cheers.

Offline limetime

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #27 on: 28 August 2018, 05:02:39 PM »
That said, yep, I started the troll account in order to see how much and how good the "**shol* control system" was by faking to be one.
My time is precious.
I find it hard for both these statements to be true.

Offline Fastman

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #28 on: 28 August 2018, 05:35:10 PM »
That said, yep, I started the troll account in order to see how much and how good the "**shol* control system" was by faking to be one.
My time is precious.
I find it hard for both these statements to be true.

Yeah I can get the point that you don't care about the community. I tried whatever to sort things out, from complaining in the forum to embody the people I dislike to see what would have happened. I spent some time doing this but actually that is MY time I dispose of it the way I want and surely I never slowplaied. I just typed stuff in the chat window. If people didn't want to lose time over me, like many did, ignoring has always been an option.

Thanks for allowing me to point out what could be a contradiction to a very inattentive person.

Offline SamE

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Re: This community is broken
« Reply #29 on: 28 August 2018, 06:38:21 PM »
How do we know you’re not still trolling us?