Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Lurker trashing fortress not a gain for devil's workshop?  (Read 247 times)

Offline Grindcore

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Lurker trashing fortress not a gain for devil's workshop?
« on: 11 August 2018, 07:52:47 AM »
Maybe this is working as intended, as I'm not sure what the exact definition of gain is. But a lurker trashing a fortress from the supply adds it to your deck, so I think it's gained technically speaking?

Anyway, when you trash fortresses with lurker and then play a devils workshop, you get a gold.

17211274 turn 7

Offline Ingix

  • Global Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1096
    • View Profile
Re: Lurker trashing fortress not a gain for devil's workshop?
« Reply #1 on: 11 August 2018, 08:08:16 AM »
That's correct as implemented. A gain is a gain only when it says "gain", or when it is implied by the rules (a 'buy' of something is usually followed by a 'gain' of that something).

So getting a Fortress back after trashing is not a gain, neither is getting a card via Masquerade, or exchanging something for a Changeling (both parts, where you exchange an unwanted card for a Changeling and later when you exchange the Changeling for a card you want). The same is true for the exchanges made by Travellers.

Offline josh bornstein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
    • View Profile
Re: Lurker trashing fortress not a gain for devil's workshop?
« Reply #2 on: 11 August 2018, 09:14:45 AM »
Ingix,
Your logic makes sense re your non-Fortress examples.  And maybe also makes some sense re Fortress...I need to think about that a little bit.

But in the example Grindcore gave, he was not gaining a Fortress *back.*  I would agree that if you trash a Fortress in your hand (Chapel, Upgrade, etc), then when it reappears, I can see how that game does not see that as a gain.  (I also see the merits of seeing it AS a gain, so either decision is fine with me.)

But with Lurker, you get a Fortress put into your hand that you never had before, so it seems like tortured reading/reasoning to not see that as a true gain.

(I'll note that I see the fact that this game has a ton of edge cases as a feature and not a bug...I love the complexity that comes up with unusual card combinations.)

Offline Puk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Lurker trashing fortress not a gain for devil's workshop?
« Reply #3 on: 12 August 2018, 09:29:46 PM »
Ingix,
Your logic makes sense re your non-Fortress examples.  And maybe also makes some sense re Fortress...I need to think about that a little bit.

But in the example Grindcore gave, he was not gaining a Fortress *back.*  I would agree that if you trash a Fortress in your hand (Chapel, Upgrade, etc), then when it reappears, I can see how that game does not see that as a gain.  (I also see the merits of seeing it AS a gain, so either decision is fine with me.)

But with Lurker, you get a Fortress put into your hand that you never had before, so it seems like tortured reading/reasoning to not see that as a true gain.

(I'll note that I see the fact that this game has a ton of edge cases as a feature and not a bug...I love the complexity that comes up with unusual card combinations.)

That's because it's a 'gain' when you use the english vocabulary definition of 'gain'. it's still not a gain following Dominion rules, as they state "When you put Fortress in your hand after trashing it, it is not 'gained' - you just put it in your hand."