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Author Topic: unacceptable payment model  (Read 359 times)

Offline b0xman

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unacceptable payment model
« on: 11 September 2018, 11:58:17 PM »
hey there, I have no doubt this thread will be removed, but I feel it's really important to voice my dissatisfaction with this site.

I was playing Dominion online, back with Goko, before they lost the rights, and have since lost the ability to play the expansions I purchased. First let me state, I purchased ALL of the expansions and had hundreds of hours of game time.

now, it seems that dominion online falls to a different company, and they have no interest in keeping their playerbase happy. If there was a 'free year' offered for players under Goko, I certainly didn't receive it, but honestly, even if I did, this concept of 'renting' the expansions is absolutely absurd and downright insulting.

what justification do you really have for charging players monthly for the expansions? I'm sure I will receive a retort of 'upkeep' and 'server maintenance' but the fact is, the only reasoning behind it is pure greed.

I would have entertained the idea of repurchasing the expansions, it would have been nice to get them back considering I had already paid for them, but I understand the temptation to make players pay again considering the rights for Dominion had to be purchased, but it would be reasonable to expect maybe a discount, so as not to insult an existing player base, but to completely disregard them, and then ask a monthly price be paid, is just rude.

and let me be clear, I know the monthly price isn't high, but I would not accept ANY monthly subscription price be paid. Just charge a flat rate for criminy sake.

Just look at Ascension? pay $10 and get the base game AND several expansions!

But I have no illusions, decisions were made, this thread will be closed, my concerns falling on deaf ears.

it's just really unfortunate I won't be able to play Dominion online anymore.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: unacceptable payment model
« Reply #1 on: 12 September 2018, 10:15:35 AM »
This is a topic that has been discussed at length.  Shuffle could have decided to grandfather in those who purchased the past "lifetime" subscriptions.  It could have decided to give significant discounts each year to people who who had these lifetime subscriptions from elsewhere.  It chose not to do so.  That was its decision to make, I guess, and they both benefited from this (ie, more money from people like me who paid a lot at the old site and also decided to suck it up and pay the ongoing rate here, after that one-year free grace people) and also were harmed by this (ie, people who feel/felt ripped off and who therefore leave and say bad things about Shuffle elsewhere on the Internet).  That is a business calculation.  While I might have done things differently, Shuffle did not.

I will point out that (IMO only) there is almost a zero chance that this post will be censored, contrary to your assumption/fear.  From what I've seen, Shuffle has been perfectly willing to have people post tons of critical comments aimed at it.  My guess is that a post will be censored in really limited circumstances: If it's filled with profanity (or maybe not??); if it uses any of the horrific terms used to describe people from certain races, religions, sexual orientations, etc.; if actual threats are made against specific people who work at Shuffle, or people who are members here, and so on.  In other words; certain words could get a post deleted, not certain thoughts or beliefs.

Your post was highly critical, but your words were reasonable and perfectly polite, you made no threats of violence, and it is to Shuffle's credit that they have shown no inclination at all to limit members' free expression.  I hope that you end up being wrong and I end up being correct . . . time will tell, of course.  :)

Offline Ingix

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Re: unacceptable payment model
« Reply #2 on: 12 September 2018, 10:45:07 AM »
hey there, I have no doubt this thread will be removed, but I feel it's really important to voice my dissatisfaction with this site.

Why would it? A forum is, among other things, a way to give feedback, which you do. I may not agree with it, but every feedback is valuable.

I was playing Dominion online, back with Goko, before they lost the rights, and have since lost the ability to play the expansions I purchased. First let me state, I purchased ALL of the expansions and had hundreds of hours of game time.

That is probably similar to what many other players on this site experienced.

now, it seems that dominion online falls to a different company, and they have no interest in keeping their playerbase happy. If there was a 'free year' offered for players under Goko, I certainly didn't receive it, but honestly, even if I did, this concept of 'renting' the expansions is absolutely absurd and downright insulting.

Well, let's put it this way: For the first time, the explained and used buisiness model makes it absolutely clear what's going on: You buy the right to use certain virtual cards online for a certain time frame. The only difference to what happened at Goko and Making Fun is that there is no pretense that the time frame is 'forever'. If Goko and Making Fun had kept their promise, you and I would still play on their services and not have to pay per time frame here.

what justification do you really have for charging players monthly for the expansions? I'm sure I will receive a retort of 'upkeep' and 'server maintenance' but the fact is, the only reasoning behind it is pure greed.

Well, once Rio Grande has sold you a physical expansion, you don't need them anymore, and they don't need you any more. A one-time price is reasonable for that. The main service Dominion Online provides is to be able to play against human players at basically any time. Of course, if you are like me and mainly play games against the bot at your own speed, including the option to meet with friends in between and continue 5h later, a purely offline version with a pay-once model would be preferred. It was promised by Shuffle iT, but has not arrived yet, unfortunately.

I would have entertained the idea of repurchasing the expansions, it would have been nice to get them back considering I had already paid for them, but I understand the temptation to make players pay again considering the rights for Dominion had to be purchased, but it would be reasonable to expect maybe a discount, so as not to insult an existing player base, but to completely disregard them, and then ask a monthly price be paid, is just rude.

Any player who had expansions bought at Making Fun I think got the 'free year'. I did, many others did, and I remember that alot of support questions like "I was player XYZ at Making Fun, how to get the free year" happened and where answered. That is the discount you want!

Also, while many players, like you, have voiced their anger at having to pay again, I keep pointing out that I understand their anger, but that Shuffle iT is the entirely wrong adressee of that anger! It should be directed to those who took your money and made it look like you could expect to keep those cards forever.

Just look at Ascension? pay $10 and get the base game AND several expansions!

That Diminion Online is tied to the paper game is of course a great boon to it, but also a weakness. There is no new 'content' that can be developed independently, it is all tied to the expansions that exist for the paper game. New rules that can easily be handled by humans IRL requires extensive work online.
The online world is obviously moving faster than a once-a-year-comes-a-new-expansion paper game. If you like that more, you can play such games, and I don't doubt that they are good.

But I have no illusions, decisions were made, this thread will be closed, my concerns falling on deaf ears.
it's just really unfortunate I won't be able to play Dominion online anymore.

I think all of that is correct, except the thread being closed.

Have fun with your games, and remember you can always come for a free game with the base set!

Ingix