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Author Topic: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?  (Read 816 times)

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?
« Reply #15 on: 01 September 2019, 04:32:09 AM »
Donald,
Thoughtful and reasonable points.  Thanks for contributing to this thread.  People can agree or disagree with your conclusions.  But no one can say, "Man, he didn't even give this any thought!" . . . it's obviously something that you carefully did consider.

Offline MusicalRose

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Re: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?
« Reply #16 on: 09 September 2019, 06:43:52 AM »
It's a matter of both, and in rankings, skill should take precedence.  Fun can happen very easily in non-ranked games, and that's what I thought those were always for.

No this isn't enough to make me quit.  I just think a lot of people were TBH being really gross about pet cards.  I have cards I really hate too, usually because I lose when an opponent knows how to use them and I don't.  I place more value here on being able to interact and strategize around the game in full. 

As I said before, pet peeve folks have won the day here.  I'm not going to take up arms to get it changed, but I do dislike it.  Justifications from pet peevers aren't going to make me like it any more.
Looking at the banned lists, I think people ban/dislike cards due to "fun" reasons rather than "skill" reasons, so there is that. Also, I haven't run any maths, but the effect on the leaderboard is probably negligible - if you are really bad at one card, you probably aren't very good with the rest either, and anyway that card is affecting at most one game out of 30 or so.

Do you feel personally damaged by this change? How?

Ah, yes.  I can't dislike or express an opinion about a change without being interrogated about how I'm "personally damaged" by this thing I dislike.  I've already explained why I don't like it.  Is there something you're having trouble understanding about that or?

Offline Accatitippi

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Re: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?
« Reply #17 on: 09 September 2019, 08:09:00 AM »
I'm sorry if that came through a bit aggressive, but it is a legitimate question, especially since you are complaining about the rule satisfying people's pet peeves.

Those people would otherwise have to play with cards they don't like, so the changes improves their experience quite a lot.
In your case, on the other hand, I'm arguing that the change would be hardly noticeable (actually, impossible to notice before several hundreds games) if it weren't highlighted in the log.

So I was wondering, do you feel that that hardly noticeable change actually meaningfully degrades your experience of Dominion? Because personally I can't see how it could, unless you play a lot and really love, say, rebuild, which might be the case, hence my asking.

For the record, my ban list is Possession and Harvest, my dislike list is Rebuild, Cultist, and Save. So I'm personally more in the camp of wanting variety, but I still think the ban list was a great idea, even though I'm not fully in its target audience.

Offline MusicalRose

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Re: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?
« Reply #18 on: 10 September 2019, 11:39:43 PM »
And I legitimately feel like I've already answered that question.  I said I don't like it.  I also said it's not going to make me rage quit the game.  I suggested other alternatives that I personally find more appropriate.  And I acknowledged that my opinion doesn't seem to be the popular one around these parts.  If I had the choice to relegate card bans to unrated (read: fun) games, I would.  But that isn't my call and I was mostly just expressing some support for the OP because I feel similarly. 

Edit: Additional thoughts.

I get it.  I have some cards I despise (literally anything that will bog a game down into a slog involving curses or ruins, basically all attacks in general), but I am also strongly oriented toward completionism and principle.  To me, it's important that rankings be based on the complete game.  Not important enough to quit playing over this, but important enough that I want to be clear I dislike it in case others feel the same and/or if the game mods might eventually take stuff like that into consideration.

Offline Renarr

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Re: Are Dislike / Banned List diminishing the fun?
« Reply #19 on: 12 September 2019, 01:57:52 PM »
Level 53 player here, and what I've been noticing a bit playing against players ranked higher than me -- and I totally get this -- is that the banned/disliked cards are typically cards that have significant swinginess based on shuffle luck and timing like Tournament.

You can't totally prevent swinginess: I lost a game against a chap 10 ranks below me who went first and got to open 5/2 with Cultist on board, and had two more Cultists by turn 5.  But there's some cards that are a lot more likely towards it.

I guess my point being, banning/disliking certain cards may not be about lack of skill, but rather wanting to make sure that the skill/luck ratio is more a 70/30 or 80/20 proposition in determining the winner rather than closer to 50/50.