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Author Topic: Trashing Small Castle via Boons does NOT then gain another Castle???  (Read 208 times)

Offline josh bornstein

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Game 30038378.  Turn 21

Game had Fool and also Castles.  I had already bought Fool before, so this gives me a chance each turn to discard a card at the start of a turn in exchange for a Boon.

On Turn 21, I had the Small Castle in hand.  I did the discard-for-Boon, and "Trash any card" happened to be the Boon.  "Great!" I thought.  "I'll trash my Small Castle and gain the Big Castle.  Woo-hoo."  But when I did trash the SC, the game did not give me the next castle (ie, the Grand Castle, in this case).  Looking at the text of SM, I can't figure out why this is.  It was my turn, I did the trashing . . . what am I missing?  Is there the same bug/phenomenon if I instead were to get the "Trash card" boon via Bard?

(After this technique did not work, I hit Replay and ended up buying the Grand Castle in a normal way--after declining to trash a card.  But, if you play Turn 21 as I originally did, you should get the same result . . . I tried it 3 different times, just to make sure I was not doing something wrong on my end.)



Offline Ingix

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Re: Trashing Small Castle via Boons does NOT then gain another Castle???
« Reply #1 on: 27 August 2019, 09:15:31 AM »
What you experienced is the correct behaviour!

Small Castle says:

Trash this or a Castle from your hand. If you do, gain a Castle.
---
2VP

Compare this to Cultist:

+2 Cards
Every other player ...(not important here)
---
When you trash this,+3 Cards.

Cultist has a triggered ability that happens when you trash it. You know it has a triggered ability because it is "below the line" (which is a strong hint) and it mentions a condition ("When you trash this") and something that happens as a result of it ("+3 Cards"). (Other common triggered ability mention a time, often "At the start of your next turn" on Duration cards).
 
Cultist's triggered ability works if trashed for The Flame's Gift (the Boon you got), if you Remodel it, if you are forced to trash it via opponent's Swindler, it even works when you trash it with Lurker from the Supply.

Now compare this wording to Small Castle.

That doesn't mention a condition (or a time), it just flat out says "Trash this or a Castle from your hand." Because it is an Action card and the text is "above the line", it happens only when you execute the card by playing it. Then, it makes an additional effect dependend on the successful execution of that previous sentence, by saying "If you do, gain a Castle." This is also different from a triggered ability, which says "When you <do X>" or "At <time Y>".

Wordings are meant to be parsed by humans, not machines, so they vary a bit and one cannot say "It absolutely must have these words to make it a triggered ability".  The most important sign of a triggered ability is that it describes a condtion/time and then says what should happen. In contrast, things that happen during a card's execution will directly state what is supposed to happen, then add a clause of "If you do" or "If you did" to make further effects dependend on the successfull execution of the previous effect.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Trashing Small Castle via Boons does NOT then gain another Castle???
« Reply #2 on: 27 August 2019, 09:51:24 AM »
Thanks Ingix,
If I understand you; you are saying that Small Castle only works (ie, getting another castle after being trashed) if you play the card and then trash it.  It will not work if it is trashed by playing another card (eg, Chapel, Remodel, Cemetery, etc etc etc., right?

I'll try to remember that rule:  If above the line, then that effect occurs only when played from one's hand.  That seems reasonably straightforward.  (Not sure if I'll remember it; but it is a clear rule.)  :)

Offline Ingix

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Re: Trashing Small Castle via Boons does NOT then gain another Castle???
« Reply #3 on: 27 August 2019, 09:55:27 AM »
Thanks Ingix,
If I understand you; you are saying that Small Castle only works (ie, getting another castle after being trashed) if you play the card and then trash it.  It will not work if it is trashed by playing another card (eg, Chapel, Remodel, Cemetery, etc etc etc., right?

Yes, that's correct.