Getting from 55 to 60?

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hary

Hi Community,

After thousands of games (on and offline) I am now stable at a ~54 rating and curious about how to take the next step. I find myself often in games against similar players, where I have the feeling that the game is decided by drawing luck. Of course it is just a feeling and I am sure, that there would have been a better strategy to win the game. With a rating about ~54 I consider myself a pretty decent player, a bit above average and I am asking myself, how to get to the 60s? I guess when you reach about ~55, you have to start getting serious about the game to further improve and i am looking for some advices. Until now I just played the game and read some articles on wiki.dominionstrategy.com.

What sources do you use to improve your game? I know that using additional tools (even if its pen and paper) are not encouraged and should be avoided, but it is obvious that keeping track of everything in a neat way is very helpful. To be honest, I sometimes use the chat to keep track of my coopers (well) or my sets (palace). Do 60+ players use any tools besides their brain?

What was helping you to get from mid 50 up to the holy 60?

Greetings

AdamH

I would not recommend taking strategy advice from the wiki seriously. There's more advice on the that's just plain bad advice than would be useful to someone like you who had managed to get to level 54.

If you're not familiar with it, you might consider checking out my blog at https://adamhorton.com/flog/ there are links there to a bunch of my other content too, as well as a list of articles from around the internet that I feel are free from any bad advice.

Generally, I would tell you that you make your own shuffle luck. Sure there are huge random factors in the game, but my philosophy is to never blame them for my losses, but rather to always be looking for ways to improve your own play. I believe that even the best players in the world have a lot of room to improve their game play.

That's all pretty general advice though. If you have more specific questions I can probably help.

hary

Quote from: AdamH on 01 September 2019, 01:30:37 PM
I would not recommend taking strategy advice from the wiki seriously. There's more advice on the that's just plain bad advice than would be useful to someone like you who had managed to get to level 54.

If you're not familiar with it, you might consider checking out my blog at https://adamhorton.com/flog/ there are links there to a bunch of my other content too, as well as a list of articles from around the internet that I feel are free from any bad advice.

Generally, I would tell you that you make your own shuffle luck. Sure there are huge random factors in the game, but my philosophy is to never blame them for my losses, but rather to always be looking for ways to improve your own play. I believe that even the best players in the world have a lot of room to improve their game play.

That's all pretty general advice though. If you have more specific questions I can probably help.

Thank you i will have a look. You are absulutely right by saying "make your own shuffle luck". That is why i wrote "feeling", knowing that there is plenty to optimize in my game. Guess it is time to start with some post-match analysis ?!

jsh

Join the dominion discord server and you can ask people about kingdoms you played and see what insights they might have.

https://discord.gg/Fak7eaf

crude

I played dominion online for ~3 months and climbed from 53~ to 58, quit, then came back and in a few months ago and have gone from 58 to 61.5~ish, so perhaps my advice is pertinent.

First I'd recommend playing slower and thinking more. 80% of my opponents in the mid-50's just see a kingdom and snap off a card in less than 10 seconds... basically only 63+ players are able to actually evaluate the kingdom that fast. Most games of dominion are more complicated than just buying the good cards, at the very least you need to know kingdom characteristics- lack of +buy, trashing, actions, and presence of alt vp all dramatically affect what you do. I'd especially recommend thinking more on turn 1, probably a minute minimum, and up to 3 minutes on complicated boards, even if you play very briskly from then on.

Second, as someone said, join the discord. Many top players are happy to have a conversation about whatever- my first day on dominion online I ended up talking to then rank 1 player Dan for an hour or so, with him giving me advice on the game, and then my first day back this time I saw RTT, the new rank 1 player, playing randoms with someone in the 40's to help them out. The quickest way to get better is to discuss the game with better players.

And last, review your games. You can search for "crude dominion" on YT if you like, but I feel this is what's pushing me beyond being a 59~60 level player. I frequently sit down and review an hour to two hours of games, and it has been extremely helpful in identifying mistakes. What you will usually find is that while you may have had poor luck, you still had a way to win the game, especially against people ranked 54~.

JKRich

Quote from: crude on 08 September 2019, 10:15:25 AM
First I'd recommend playing slower and thinking more...  I'd especially recommend thinking more on turn 1, probably a minute minimum, and up to 3 minutes on complicated boards, even if you play very briskly from then on.
Just wondering: do you get a lot of complaints when you take so much time studying the initial board? One thing that scared me off of playing real people before the rating system barely started was the constant complaining if I'd take even 30 seconds before making my first move. I can't imagine what I'd get after 3 minutes. And what if you need to take some time on a move further into a game? Have you ever told someone who complained "Go ahead and blacklist me if you like. I prefer to take the time to play smartly"? Thanks.

santamonica811

JK,
Definitely use the chat function.  If you don't communicate with the other player, she/he of course will assume bad faith on your part.  But if you say something like, "New cards for me in this kingdom.  I'll need an extra minute or two before my first turn.", then . . . should be no problem.  But, generally, I think most kingdoms will not require an extended period to make your first moves.  In 99% of games, you will be starting off with 5-2, 2-5, 4-3, or 3-4, right?  It's been my experience that it is quite rare to have a kingdom where I am left to ponder, "Which of these two 4-coin cost cards should I buy right now?"  I mean, I might take 10-20 seconds.  But 120-180 seconds???

I can imagine taking a minute in a late-game situation, IF it's a really complicated kingdom.  But I've seen that very very rarely.  If I was playing someone who was taking a minute before starting her move many many times in the same game, I would probably think she was intentionally slow-playing (not fun for me), or is such a beginner that these hugely drawn-out turns are necessary (also not fun for me).

My guess (hope??) is that honest communication with the other player will prevent almost all bad feelings before they even happen.

Stef

I take more then a minute on turn one very often. Having $4 does not imply you have to buy one of the $4 costs at all. And besides, it's a really good time to think about the entire kingdom/game, and have a plan for that.

But yeah, just typing "thinking" usually solves all irritations. Taking your time is not a problem. Having a very long line to explain this defeats the purpose imo.

JKRich

Quote from: Stef on 10 September 2019, 01:24:56 PM
I take more then a minute on turn one very often. Having $4 does not imply you have to buy one of the $4 costs at all. And besides, it's a really good time to think about the entire kingdom/game, and have a plan for that.
Yeah, that's my approach -- thinking not just about turn 1&2, but making my game plan. Thanks so much for replying.

crude

Quote from: JKRich on 10 September 2019, 07:17:16 AM
Quote from: crude on 08 September 2019, 10:15:25 AM
First I'd recommend playing slower and thinking more...  I'd especially recommend thinking more on turn 1, probably a minute minimum, and up to 3 minutes on complicated boards, even if you play very briskly from then on.
Just wondering: do you get a lot of complaints when you take so much time studying the initial board? One thing that scared me off of playing real people before the rating system barely started was the constant complaining if I'd take even 30 seconds before making my first move. I can't imagine what I'd get after 3 minutes. And what if you need to take some time on a move further into a game? Have you ever told someone who complained "Go ahead and blacklist me if you like. I prefer to take the time to play smartly"? Thanks.

Most people >=58 are fine with thinking on turn 1, but yes people <=55 often get salty about it. That's unimportant, though. Them snap-buying something is what's keeping them from being good at the game, and you're trying to be good, so don't internalize their bad mentality.