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Author Topic: Rating not updating?  (Read 1748 times)

Offline BazookaJoe

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Rating not updating?
« on: 30 March 2020, 02:06:50 AM »
I played a bunch of rated games but on the leaderboard it still shows my games played at a constant 15 and my level never changes.  Any idea what causes this?  Thanks

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #1 on: 30 March 2020, 08:14:59 AM »
1) The leaderboard is only updated once a day, starting at 0:00 UTC.
2) Due to the current performance problems, Stef thought about not doing the update for a 1 or 2 days. I'm not sure if he actually did that, but it might explain your ratings not updating even if you played yesterday (based on UTC time).

From your time of posting the update (if it ran) might have actually just started, so now you might have your results counted.

Offline JohannRibert

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #2 on: 02 April 2020, 12:12:08 PM »
It seems the problem still persists. My score is frozen despite playing a few games for at least 2 days. Is there some new information on this topic?

Best regards,
JR

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #3 on: 02 April 2020, 01:23:35 PM »
The ratings haven't been updated since the last time I posted. I'll ask Stef if he has an ETA for the calculations coming back.

Offline jacobpb

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #4 on: 06 April 2020, 02:41:57 AM »
Hello.

I am wondering about the updating as well.  I just played a bunch of games and it's 00:40 UTC right now and there has been no update.  Thanks for any news on this!



1) The leaderboard is only updated once a day, starting at 0:00 UTC.
2) Due to the current performance problems, Stef thought about not doing the update for a 1 or 2 days. I'm not sure if he actually did that, but it might explain your ratings not updating even if you played yesterday (based on UTC time).

From your time of posting the update (if it ran) might have actually just started, so now you might have your results counted.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #5 on: 06 April 2020, 08:10:48 AM »
The ratings update process has not be run since 6-7 days. At the time of the prvious posting, it was assumed that would be fixed soon, but it hasn't, as other problems have crept up (other reasons for lag in-game, people not being able to login, etc.).

It's still unsure when the next ratings update runs as of now.

Offline jacobpb

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #6 on: 06 April 2020, 02:46:02 PM »
Great, thank you for the update.

Offline Gold Subscrptn Chick

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #7 on: 10 April 2020, 07:54:23 PM »
@Ingix Thank you for the explanations. Being in IT myself, I'm slightly worried about the massive load to the system to update a couple of weeks worth (if not more) of game logs, when 1 day's game log was already causing such slowness supposedly. And I would definitely not be happy if these couple of weeks' game logs are NOT uploaded...

Offline HennesIX

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #8 on: 12 April 2020, 11:24:42 AM »
@Gold

That's what I thought.

But... I guess (and ofc I'm only guessing) the problem is a too complex calculation with no optimization (which wasn't necessary before the world wide lockdown)


So I'm pretty optimistic with some optimization or a changed calculation method the ratings will be back.

Offline Gold Subscrptn Chick

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #9 on: 12 April 2020, 09:07:31 PM »
@Gold

That's what I thought.

But... I guess (and ofc I'm only guessing) the problem is a too complex calculation with no optimization (which wasn't necessary before the world wide lockdown)


So I'm pretty optimistic with some optimization or a changed calculation method the ratings will be back.

+1

Offline dane

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #10 on: 14 April 2020, 12:23:11 PM »
I could be wrong, but I think the calculation of ratings isn't simply a case of adding in the new games.  I think the calculation has to start from the very beginning every time, which would certainly explain why it's a major overhead.  It's been stated that resigning against someone who is deliberately playing very slowly will have no effect on one's rating once that player is banned and their games expunged from the database.  That can surely only be true if the calculation of ratings is done ab initio every time.

Offline HennesIX

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #11 on: 14 April 2020, 02:29:17 PM »
According to the PDF file one step of the calculation is an iterative method. This might be time consuming.
It is not rocket science and for a CPU this should be not too challengeing. I mean I don't expect billions of ppl playing dominion on this platform ;)

But at the end we are all just guessing. Let's hope for the leaderboard to be updated very soon.

Offline markus

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #12 on: 15 April 2020, 12:00:07 AM »
Yes, the ratings were always updated from day 1. So it became more over time but adding e.g. one month now would not be different from having it run each day for the past month.

Offline Gold Subscrptn Chick

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #13 on: 15 April 2020, 09:51:32 PM »
I believe it is NOT the same running the last several weeks' worth as a batch at once vs. having it run everyday.

Your previous score factors into the rating change. So running it once as a batch you're making one update using your previous score, whereas having it run everyday your previous score changes every time.

So, if we run the update tonight, your score after the batch update would be different than it would be if updates were run every night previous to tonight. Thee difference might not be much, but it'll be different.

Offline LordGek

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #14 on: 17 April 2020, 09:52:10 PM »
Color me confused, so are NO rankings updates happening currently or are they just processed in big batches at the end of the day?

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #15 on: 17 April 2020, 10:27:57 PM »
The ratings updated used to be done every day around midnight UTC, but at the moment they are not done, so all player's ratings are unchanged since 2+ weeks.

Offline jacobpb

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #16 on: 18 April 2020, 06:23:39 PM »
No updates are being posted at this time.

Offline andylatto

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #17 on: 20 April 2020, 06:56:39 PM »
It would be nice to have an update on when ratings will be recalculated. I'm new to the site (as I'm sure a lot of other quarantined people are), low-rated, and winning 80% of my matched games. It would be really nice to be able to use the matcher to play other strong players, but I can't do that until my rating goes up.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #18 on: 20 April 2020, 08:53:26 PM »
The problem is we don't know. We are testing as we speak, but we need to be sure that the new method is not doing strange things sometimes, which it currently does.

Offline Angst

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #19 on: 23 April 2020, 07:18:04 PM »
I hope you can fix the problem quickly. Without ratings, the game is only half the fun  :(

Offline Stef

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #20 on: 24 April 2020, 02:21:17 PM »
I hope you can fix the problem quickly. Without ratings, the game is only half the fun  :(

well... I'm certainly not going to claim I managed to fix this quickly, but it was pretty quickly after you posted this message :)

Offline ben latraverse

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #21 on: 25 April 2020, 12:50:00 AM »
Hi

Since the new version is in place, I played 2 games (in the last 4 hours) and I won.

But when I logged in 5 minutes ago, my 2 games has disappeared. ???

Did you restore a database ?

Thanks.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #22 on: 25 April 2020, 11:21:43 AM »
No database was restored and the new midnight calculation was 1h after your posting (and seemed to have worked well).

I belieive you that samething strange may have happpened, but because of the ratings reboot some tools (like dombot, but could also be the in-game leaderbord) may be not showing the correct data.

So if possible please tell me what information exactly causes you to come to that conclusion? The number of played games in the leaderboard jumped back? Dombot listet no or not enough games for yesterday's date? Or something else?

Offline ben latraverse

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #23 on: 25 April 2020, 02:39:40 PM »
Hi,

I just verified this morning, no my 2 games are not there.

At my first logon yesterday with the new version, I saw my rating. (first time in the last 3 weeks)

1. 5311 games with 52.87 (at my first logon)
2. 5312 games with 52.97 (my first game with a win at 12:15 PM EST)
3. 5313 games with 53.05 (my second game with a win at 15:50 PM EST)
4. And when I logon in at 17:45 PM EST, I was back at 5311 games and with my rating at 52.87.

So, this morning, I'm still at 5311 games with 52.87.

Could you check again please ? I'm sure it's happen something when the "big job" is starting at 00:00 UTC.

Thanks.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #24 on: 25 April 2020, 05:53:20 PM »
Are you sure that the number of games played shown is 5311? Because dombot says you played 5316 games and have rating 52.87 and it also says you haven't played any game today (which whould of course make the rating different from before).

I'll forward this to Stef, maybe he can make more sense of it and with your timing data it should hopefully be possible to identify the games.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #25 on: 25 April 2020, 07:26:20 PM »
First, you did not see ghosts!  ;D
The effect is happening right now as well (for me, for example).

Explanation is most likely as follows:

There are actually 2 of each server, so Stef can switch between them in case one needs to be serviced. That happened yesterday and today with the server that "distributes the ratings" (metaserver). They have your rating from the update (UTC midnight) and the games you played today, so they can calculate your current rating.

Now, if a server get's switched, the new one still gets your rating from the update from the database, but they don't get told the games you played today before that time. They are still saved, but the "shortcut" to send them to the metaserver doesn't work anymore, becase they got sent to the "old" metaserver that is now offline.

That means to the new metaserver it looked like you didn't play any games today, which is exactly what you saw.

That bug will need to be fixed, of course. But it seems to explain what happened.

Offline ben latraverse

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #26 on: 04 May 2020, 01:51:56 PM »
Hi,

Is it normal, I think the rating is not updating after each game ?

Thanks

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #27 on: 04 May 2020, 02:10:09 PM »
Yes, there was a problem this (Eurpean) morning. Stef says he fixed it a few minutes ago, so it should work now (probably after the next rated game you play).

Offline Stevenonego

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Answer
« Reply #28 on: 12 May 2020, 07:57:29 PM »
That is impressive
The early bird catches the worm

Offline ben latraverse

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #29 on: 19 May 2020, 03:35:16 AM »
Hi,

In the past, when a player didn't play a game during one day, his rating was going down slightly, like maybe 0.05 by day.

But since the new version is in place with the rating update after each game, it's like if the rating is going down slightly even if I play a lot of games during one day.

For me in example, I'm playing between 5 and 20 games by day, and when I come back the day after, I always lost between 0.05 and 0.08 of rating, like if I didn't play a game the day before.

Is it because with the new feature, the server doesn't know that I played a game or more during last day ?

I know, it's not a big thing, but it's not very funny to lost always 0.05 by day.

Thanks.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #30 on: 19 May 2020, 09:41:25 AM »
Your observation is right.

Glicko-2, the rating system used, is still based on a ratings period (of one day for Dominion) and all the games during that rating period are processed "at the same time" (meaning it doesn't matter for your next rating in which order you played your rated games in the ratings period).

Before the ratings update, what was shown in the game client was your calculated rating during the last update, so basically your rating from last European midnight.

After the ratings update, what is shown in the client is the answer to the question: "If you don't play any more rated games during this ratings period, what will your rating be at the next update?"

That explains your observation. You play some games on day X and the client will show you what your rating will be at the ratings update between day X and day X+1. For me some days ago that was 49.51, so I got a "50" in the list.

Then, during that ratings update between day X and day X+1, my rating to be used for day X+1 was calculated as 49.51. But when I looked at my rating the next morning, it was 49.49. That's because I hadn't played a games that day yet, and the client told me what my rating would be if I didn't play any rated games this day. Naturally, it would decrease a bit.

I understand that players want to know "What is my rating right now?" Unfortunaetly, that concept doesn't exist for Glicko-2. You only have ratings at the end of ratings periods. Before the ratings update, that was what was shown, your rating at the last update. Now, what is shown is your rating at the next update, as predicted under the assumption that you don't play more games until that time.

Offline Gold Subscrptn Chick

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #31 on: 20 May 2020, 12:35:00 AM »
Your observation is right.

Glicko-2, the rating system used, is still based on a ratings period (of one day for Dominion) and all the games during that rating period are processed "at the same time" (meaning it doesn't matter for your next rating in which order you played your rated games in the ratings period).

Before the ratings update, what was shown in the game client was your calculated rating during the last update, so basically your rating from last European midnight.

After the ratings update, what is shown in the client is the answer to the question: "If you don't play any more rated games during this ratings period, what will your rating be at the next update?"

That explains your observation. You play some games on day X and the client will show you what your rating will be at the ratings update between day X and day X+1. For me some days ago that was 49.51, so I got a "50" in the list.

Then, during that ratings update between day X and day X+1, my rating to be used for day X+1 was calculated as 49.51. But when I looked at my rating the next morning, it was 49.49. That's because I hadn't played a games that day yet, and the client told me what my rating would be if I didn't play any rated games this day. Naturally, it would decrease a bit.

I understand that players want to know "What is my rating right now?" Unfortunaetly, that concept doesn't exist for Glicko-2. You only have ratings at the end of ratings periods. Before the ratings update, that was what was shown, your rating at the last update. Now, what is shown is your rating at the next update, as predicted under the assumption that you don't play more games until that time.

I'm slightly confused by the above. The ratings are updating after every game it seems. So there's an additional daily update on top of the post-every-game updates?

Offline Ingix

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Re: Rating not updating?
« Reply #32 on: 20 May 2020, 09:10:52 AM »
As I said: The "real" ratings update happens still once at midnight UTC. It will take into account all the games you played during the last time that update was made (so usually the last 24h). That didn't change principally, but the method used is now much faster and has less strain on the servers which in parallel needs to handle the games going on at that time and the results coming in.

What you see in the updated rating is a "preview": This is what your rating will be during the next midnight ratings update under the assumption you don't play more games.

So before the big ratings overhaul, you were shown the "past", your rating from the last update. Now you are shown the "future" (your rating from the next update) which has certain uncertainties, of course.