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Author Topic: Looking for suggestions  (Read 232 times)

Offline artsfols

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Looking for suggestions
« on: 01 May 2020, 11:07:19 PM »
I am not new to Dominion, but only recently discovered this site.  I'm pretty impressed with the implementation of the game, as with the various mechanics this can not have been simple.
The ladder also looks like a nice implementation. For a while I played a game called Hearthstone - what a mess.
But I'm baffled by the player matching mechanics and rather than spend any more time figuring this out through trial and error, perhaps I can describe what I would like to do, and someone can prescribe a course of action.

I have played the basic game, Intrigue, Seaside and some Alchemy in the board game.  I then purchased a couple more sets and when I discovered that I never broke plastic on them, haven't bought any more.
And like many things we used to play a ton of Dominion some years ago, and since then, it's now and then.

So, what I'd like to do online is practice with an expanding universe of cards. There is a feature to check off what I want to play with, so it looks like I can do that.
But when I play, it seems like I can only play the basic game or it throws everything at me. (yikes).

So how do I play and learn the game on a graduated basis?

Also, one fine point someone can maybe answer.  I like to study all the cards for 5 minutes (or more if I don't know them) and think about a strategy.  When we play the card game, we always spend some time looking at the cards and discussing them with each other.  It's a fun part of the game.  I also like to look at all the ins and outs on the rules - which can run to paragraphs of information.
When I play a game, I send a chat message "studying cards ..." but I don't know what the expectations are. And I only spend maybe a minute, but I feel rushed.  Is there some etiquette around game start up?  Thanks in advance.

Offline jsh

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #1 on: 02 May 2020, 02:32:23 AM »
The only way to play the way you want to currently is to open tables, generate random sets the way you want with the expansion buttons and hope people join to play. You can try rated or unrated. Getting it the way you want on automatch probably isn't happening consistently.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #2 on: 02 May 2020, 03:38:29 AM »
I'd add a suggestion: Before playing matches against live people, spend a few days playing a ton of games against the bot.  You'll now be able to learn all the cards, and obviously can take as much times as you want to research each new card without seeming rude to Lord Rat (ie, the 'bot.).  I think it would be considered pretty rude to the other player(s) if you, each game, have to take many minutes in the beginning to look at a bunch of cards.  On the other hand, I think most players would have no problem if you write, in chat, "Need to read one new card.  Will take a minute.  Sorry."  And, if you own, say, 3 kingdoms here, but the other player owns all the kingdoms, you will come across many unfamiliar cards.  Players with all the kingdoms understand this, and will give opponents extra time if a bunch of the newer cards happen to come up in your particular game.

I suspect that most players will have strong objects to not starting a game for 5+ minutes, while you think of a strategy.  But I am sure that there are *some* players out there who would like to do that.  So, while you are starting to play here (welcome, by the way!  :) ), try to play much more quickly than that, until you find out in chat if your opponent also likes a much slower, relaxed, social, game.  Then, when you find these rare people, "Friend" them, and that will make it easy for you to find each other for future games.

As to in-game chat:  It's something that I quite enjoy.  But it's been my experience that most others players do not.  I'll get a "Good luck" and a "Good game" from them, but any chat I do during the game is ignored...other than players who are asking for an Undo.  They will always write out a sentence--if asked--explaining their reason for their Undo request.  My guess is that, as you play live people, you'll find the ones who use chat similarly and you can Friend them as well.  And blacklist the players who insist on playing more quickly, or who are much more competitive than you.

Hope you have fun here.


Offline artsfols

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2020, 03:55:12 PM »
Both of these are good guidance.

I can see where I can open a table, and for now, I'll select base game and Renaissance which are free.

In selecting my Kingdom, I definitely think you should grey out expansions that are not available to me.  It took a bit to figure out the cryptic error message and what was going on.  The confusion was heightened by seeing cards in matching that I know I wasn't eligible for, but now I understand how that works so it is not a problem.

But the kingdom selection is unforgivable given the really nice interface that has been crafted here.    It's always best in software design to limit choices to those available, than to give a wide range of choices, and then error out when the user makes a wrong one.  Especially with a poor error message.  Actually just fixing that will help.

Thanks for explaining the etiquette around the game. I can roll with it, and it makes even more sense to build my deck knowledge first. It would make sense to get to know ALL the cards really well before making an attempt on the ladder.  It will be an interesting concept in deck building. If you think about a game like Hearthstone (which isn't half the game Dominion is), much time is spent off-line building the unbeatable deck.  With Dominion, and especially with this online version, it's much more 'seat of the pants' which does have advantages.  You are learning as you go, rather than just thinking about it.

I want to play for a bit before springing for a subscription.  One question. If I get a silver subscription, which has more to do with limiting the cards, than reasons of cost, can I play against silver people only?  Or do I have to have a grasp of ALL the expansions before making a ladder attempt. Note - base game only is a bit too limiting. 



Offline artsfols

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2020, 06:10:09 PM »
I continue to refine how this will work.  I did play against a bot with Base + Renaissance.  But this isn't a great direction.
I think now I'll buy a 6 month silver subscription.
I'll keep adding expansions gradually and play against bots.
Once I am familiar with 4 or 5 expansions, I'll try matching on 2 player rated games marking these 4 or 5 expansions as familiar.
If I am matched with non-subscribers, then fine, we're playing my familiar cards only.
If I am matched with a gold subscriber, then likely it will be someone down the ladder where I am, so I'll be playing a draw from a union of my familiar with their familiar, thus maybe a couple of extras I'm not familiar with.
Please confirm if my understanding of the matching process is correct.


Offline Ingix

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2020, 06:57:10 PM »
What you need to know is that rated games do not respect familiar cards. So as as soon as you play rated games and the other player is a Gold subscriber, you can potentially come up against any available card. If you want to have familiar cards respected, you need to play unrated games (including vs. a bot).

Offline artsfols

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2020, 07:32:50 PM »
What you need to know is that rated games do not respect familiar cards. So as as soon as you play rated games and the other player is a Gold subscriber, you can potentially come up against any available card. If you want to have familiar cards respected, you need to play unrated games (including vs. a bot).

Assuming then, rated games never look at card familiarity, what happens if:
a silver subscriber meets a non-subsriber,
a silver subscriber meets a silver subscriber?

I can see a motivation for rating only 'all card' games, but why are games with base set only rated?  It strikes me that only games with the base set and games with the entire universe of cards are rated.  And that makes me think I must still be misunderstanding something here.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #7 on: 02 May 2020, 08:38:58 PM »
Rated games come in 3 varieties: cards from base game only, cards from Silver sub only and cards from Gold sub (aka "all cards"). That's caused by the way the subscriptions work, whoever has the "highest" subscription among the participating players determines which of the 3 kinds of games will happen.

Familiar cards are meant as a way to familiarize players with cards they don't know yet from physical play (as you are doing). As such, they are not for competetive games (aka rated games).

Another reason is that respecting familiar cards on rated games would allow players to "cheat" by  declaring only very few cards as familiar, even down to just 10. That means they would play the same kingdom of 10 cards again and again. Guess who will win most of those games, that player who now plays it for the 10th time or their opponent, who sees it for the first time?

Offline artsfols

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Re: Looking for suggestions
« Reply #8 on: 03 May 2020, 12:00:07 AM »
Rated games come in 3 varieties: cards from base game only, cards from Silver sub only and cards from Gold sub (aka "all cards"). That's caused by the way the subscriptions work, whoever has the "highest" subscription among the participating players determines which of the 3 kinds of games will happen.

Familiar cards are meant as a way to familiarize players with cards they don't know yet from physical play (as you are doing). As such, they are not for competetive games (aka rated games).

Another reason is that respecting familiar cards on rated games would allow players to "cheat" by  declaring only very few cards as familiar, even down to just 10. That means they would play the same kingdom of 10 cards again and again. Guess who will win most of those games, that player who now plays it for the 10th time or their opponent, who sees it for the first time?

The third paragraph is easily overcome by: a) having a minimum number of cards, and b) making the deck the union of the two players familiar cards.  However, I'm not trying to argue in favour of using familiar cards for rated games.  But I think the objection to it is weak.

Now that you've explained the three tiers I am happy with it, and will proceed.  I'll subscribe to silver so I am not overwhelmed with expansion sets.  If I meet a non-subscriber or silver subscriber I am In Like Flint.  If I meet a gold subscriber, I will have more of a challenge but that won't be all the time. 

And initially, I'll use bots to learn all the silver editions gradually.

Thank you for your patience in explaining this.  I'm known to ask a lot of questions; some say too many.  LOL.