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Author Topic: TIL: timeout waiting for undo  (Read 263 times)

Offline jmjm

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TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« on: 19 August 2020, 11:58:35 PM »
Today I learned: if I request an undo, and the player just refuses to respond for two minutes, I forfeit the game.

That doesn't seem quite right...

Offline Ingix

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #1 on: 20 August 2020, 09:29:53 AM »
An undo request doesn't change your "4 minute clock" (after which an opponent can make you resign if you don't make a decision), that's right.

And while this seems surprising at first glance, imagine what would happen if it was the other way around. A player could indefinitely delay the game by asking for an undo, get denied, wait 3:30min, ask for an undo, get denied, wait 3:30mi and repeat etc.

Of course, a more detailed time keeping scheme may prevent that (and the discussions about what would be fair are almost as old as this service), but at the moment the "clock" runs for one player at a time, and an undo request doesn't affect this.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #2 on: 22 August 2020, 09:41:14 PM »
At the very least, the game could be coded so that the first time you ask for an Undo in any turn, the clock freezes while your opponent considers your request.  I'd argue that this is not only reasonable, it's almost required, as some Undo request will require your opponent to write in Chat to you, asking for more information, you'll need to write back in Chat, giving that explanation.  I can do that quite quickly, playing at my desktop computer.  But I suspect that for people playing on smaller devices or phones, it would take much much longer to do this sort of chat.

Offline jeebus

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #3 on: 25 August 2020, 12:28:27 AM »
Couldn't the clock just freeze while undo the undo is pending? (No need to only consider the extreme choice of resetting the clock.) Freezing the clock has the added benefit of giving your opponent and insentive to answer promptly.

Offline Ingix

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #4 on: 25 August 2020, 09:07:58 AM »
Yes, that sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

Offline Ingix

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #5 on: 26 August 2020, 08:48:09 AM »
There was some discussion about the "frozen clock" proposal, and it has a pitfall that I didn't see: A bad faith player can repeatedly request an undo in the same situation, and the opponent would be required to repeatedly deny it.

One proposed alternative was to time out an undo request after some time (say 1 min). If some discussion about the undo happens, it can easily be requested again. Otherwise, its clear for both players that the player who has to make a decision "is on the clock" and the undo was not granted.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: TIL: timeout waiting for undo
« Reply #6 on: 26 August 2020, 09:27:50 PM »
Ingix,
I am glad to read that people are considering my "freeze the clock" idea.  Your concerns could be addressed by programing it so that the clock freezes only once per turn.