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Author Topic: Long wait for players before game starts  (Read 830 times)

Offline gcrackers82

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Long wait for players before game starts
« on: 25 January 2021, 10:57:30 PM »
Just curious... when I've been matched with a player and I've hit the "Start Game" button but the other player hasn't, what's the penalty for resigning?

I ask because I've noticed that maybe 1 out of every 5 or 7 games (anecdotal evidence only) I have to wait for a minute or two after I click to start the game before the cards are dealt. I assume it's someone that has walked away from their computer after starting a search for a game and we get matched and then I have to wait for them to start that first hand.

This is very different from a player having to read or review the cards before a game begins...

Help? Thanks!

Offline Ingix

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2021, 09:06:24 AM »
The moment you see the kingdom, resigning means you lost the game. In other words, once you have the interface to resign, it's a loss.

You may very well be right that the other player is AFK when you are matched. But from my experience a good portion of players will study the cards and form their basic strategy before hitting "Start Game". So what you see may be a mixture of both: player temporatily AFK and player studying/reading cards.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #2 on: 26 January 2021, 04:52:11 PM »
This is exactly why the "start game" button shouldn't wait for other players (among other reasons). When I click the start game button I should see my opening hand and not have to wait for other players to do this.

Offline theWalrus

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #3 on: 26 January 2021, 10:54:20 PM »
My experience is that some players study the kingdom for a minute or two before clicking start game. I would suggest patience, and maybe either taking the time to study the kingdom yourself or setting the sound on your computer to on so that you will get an audio notification when the other player is ready to go.

Usually, players who take a minute or two to study the kingdom are no slower once the game gets started. Nothing wrong with formulating a strategy before the game starts.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #4 on: 27 January 2021, 01:02:42 AM »
I am one of those people that studies the kingdom at the start, but much of the time my studying can be invalidated by seeing an opening split I wasn't expecting, or a lot of the time it depends on what I see.

There is no downside to letting me see my opening split when I click the button, it saves time a lot of games and never makes things take longer. It makes no sense to make me wait to see this.

Offline theWalrus

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #5 on: 27 January 2021, 04:51:35 AM »
Sure, but that's not the implementation we currently have. I was responding to the OP's question, not your suggestion. Currently, the only recourse is to wait it out while your opponent studies his cards.

And ultimately, studying the kingdom and deciding a general isn't heavily impacted by your opening split. I mean, there are two possibilities: 5/2, 4/3. It's not like there are 30 different opening scenarios you have to prepare for.

Offline SkyHard

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #6 on: 27 January 2021, 05:54:40 AM »
I mean, there are two possibilities: 5/2, 4/3. It's not like there are 30 different opening scenarios you have to prepare for.
What about 2/5 and 3/4? These make four possibilitier ;-)

But unfortunately you are right. Nothing can (and probably will) be done about the compulsory wait.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #7 on: 27 January 2021, 07:52:10 AM »
I am asking for the implementation to change. It seems like nobody here thinks it would be better if the implementation stayed the same, right?

Also, yes it very much matters if I get 4/3 vs. 3/4 in some cases, and yes it can affect my strategy. It may not happen every game but it's well over 10% which makes it significant enough to be noticeable.

Offline theWalrus

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #8 on: 27 January 2021, 08:03:03 PM »
Quote
Also, yes it very much matters if I get 4/3 vs. 3/4 in some cases, and yes it can affect my strategy. It may not happen every game but it's well over 10% which makes it significant enough to be noticeable.

So you're saying you'll buy two completely different cards depending on whether you open 4/3 or 3/4? Interesting. I'd love to hear scenarios where 3/4 v. 4/3 changes your opening.

I don't think it would be better if the implementation stayed the same, no, but I think the improvement would be very minor, at best. The fact that it doesn't auto-start once the first player clicks start, showing them their cards, has never bothered me in the least. Honestly, never even been on my radar at all.

Personally, I'd prefer improvements to the AI over this.

Offline rphilip

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2021, 04:17:39 AM »
So you're saying you'll buy two completely different cards depending on whether you open 4/3 or 3/4? Interesting. I'd love to hear scenarios where 3/4 v. 4/3 changes your opening.

In most cases it doesn't matter but Tax, Villa, Knights if Sir Martin is on top, Ghost Town, Guardian, Night Watchman, Way's + Necropolis and Cavalry all may play different 4/3 vs 3/4 or player 1 vs player 2. That's also not an exhaustive list.

Offline AdamH

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #10 on: 28 January 2021, 05:52:11 PM »
All of that stuff is valid.

The big ones in my mind are the events, Plan, Cathedral, Advance/Mill/Island (with Shelters), Expedition, Banish, Travelling Fair. But then there are Heirlooms too -- Cursed Gold is the big one here but sometimes Goat on a 5/2 can screw you up.

Then there's other stuff too, like Young Witch or actually lots of attacks -- if I can see my opponent's $4 buy and it's not the attack then that can definitely affect how greedy I get.

Offline GamingGracie

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #11 on: 02 February 2021, 05:19:44 AM »
I'm one of those studiers.  But sometimes the other person takes longer than me.  I specifically say "reading cards" or something so ppl don't think I'm AFK.  Also, it's nice to have a friendly opening.  Most people respond positively to that.  For me, I like finding out the split at the same time 3/4 and 2/5 sometimes make a difference in how I start the game.  IDK - that first wait isn't that bad in my mind and it goes pretty fast after.

Offline dane

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #12 on: 04 February 2021, 06:38:10 PM »
I'm another player that studies the kingdom at the start, but I have a message that I cut and paste into chat to let my opponent(s) know that I am doing so.  Originally I didn't click to start the game until after I'd finished looking at the kingdom, but one or two players pointed out to me that it would better to do so before studying (they were right), so that's what I now do.

The only justification I can see for showing players their deck initially is that it ensures that someone with a $5 start knows whether they are playing a Shelters or an Estates game (if I recall correctly the presence of Heirlooms, but not of Shelters, is obvious if one studies the kingdom).  That same information could, however, be presented in the log by stating the content of the deck.  If that were done, then I'd agree that there is absolutely no need for the delay before seeing one's initial hand.

Offline Ingix

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #13 on: 04 February 2021, 07:15:06 PM »
The log lists the  content of the starting decks already, and in addition the 10 cards the deck is made of are shown when the "Start Game" button is shown.

Offline dane

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Re: Long wait for players before game starts
« Reply #14 on: 09 February 2021, 05:40:04 PM »
The log lists the  content of the starting decks already, and in addition the 10 cards the deck is made of are shown when the "Start Game" button is shown.
Something which inevitably I spotted the very next time I played a game.  Previously I'd only ever paid attention to what is shown at the 'Start Game' stage.