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Author Topic: Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??  (Read 100 times)

Offline josh bornstein

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Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??
« on: 01 April 2021, 08:04:24 AM »
Game 70864750.  Turn 18 (for example)

When I play Golem, there is no way for me to use Royal Carriage, to allow me to play Golem a 2nd time.
The text for RC says, in essence, 'Directly after you finish playing an Action card (if it's still in play), you can call this from the Tavern Mat.'

In an IRL game, I think the process would be: 1. RC is on the Tavern Mat already. 2. I play Golem.  3. I immediately announce that I will also be playing RC on Golem this turn.  (ie, I think I have to do this before I scroll through my deck to turn up the next 2 Action cards, as the text does say "directly after."  But maybe not...maybe I get to see both Action cards that Golem turns up before I have to commit to using RC.)  4.  I play out the Golem's first 2 Action cards.  5.  I play out Golem's final 2 action cards. [Or, if "directly after finishing playing Golem" is actually after you see those first 2 Action cards, then that is when I should be given the choice to play RC.]

But, obviously, at SOME point in a turn, one has finished playing Golem (or any other card, other than--I guess--maybe a Princed card or maybe the initial turn of a Duration card, or something like that.).  Right?  I can't see anything in the text of RC that excludes or precludes using it on Golem.  An AI bug?  Or am I missing something?

[And since I'm already asking...If I do have a Princed Action card, and on a particular turn I decide to use Royal Carriage on it; does that remove it from being Princed for the rest of the game?  Or do I get the RC double effect for that one turn, and subsequent turns go back to the normal Princed-card effect???]  :)

Offline Ingix

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Re: Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??
« Reply #1 on: 01 April 2021, 10:38:11 AM »
Game 70864750.  Turn 18 (for example)

When I play Golem, there is no way for me to use Royal Carriage, to allow me to play Golem a 2nd time.
The text for RC says, in essence, 'Directly after you finish playing an Action card (if it's still in play), you can call this from the Tavern Mat.'

In an IRL game, I think the process would be: 1. RC is on the Tavern Mat already. 2. I play Golem.  3. I immediately announce that I will also be playing RC on Golem this turn.  (ie, I think I have to do this before I scroll through my deck to turn up the next 2 Action cards, as the text does say "directly after."  But maybe not...maybe I get to see both Action cards that Golem turns up before I have to commit to using RC.)

You got the timing a bit wrong. As you said, Royal Carriage reads

Directly after you finish playing...

You haven't finished playing Golem until you have fully executed all of its (on-play) instructions. That includes not only looking through your deck to find 2 Actions cards to play, but also discarding the other cards and finally playing the 2 Actions. If one of those 2 Actions is a Vassal or Herald, that means you get to potentially play even more cards before you "finish playing" that Golem!

Think about if you played a card like Mining Village or Tragic Hero. When you start executing it's instructions, you don't even know if the card will be in play when all is over, so committing to using the Royal Carriage makes not much sense at this point.


But, obviously, at SOME point in a turn, one has finished playing Golem (or any other card, other than--I guess--maybe a Princed card or maybe the initial turn of a Duration card, or something like that.).  Right?  I can't see anything in the text of RC that excludes or precludes using it on Golem.  An AI bug?  Or am I missing something?

No, you totally can call Royal Carriage on Golem, but let's see what happend on that turn 18 in the above game (the "I" stands for what you did)


I plays a Golem.
  I reveals a Lurker and a Messenger.
  I plays a Lurker.
    I gets +1 Action.
    I trashes a Hamlet.
  I plays a Messenger.
    I gets +1 Buy.
    I gets +$2.
    I moves their deck to the discard.
    I calls a Royal Carriage.
    I plays a Messenger again.
      I gets +1 Buy.
      I gets +$2.
      I calls a Royal Carriage.
      I plays a Messenger again.
        I gets +1 Buy.
        I gets +$2.
I plays an Oasis.


As I explained above you finished playing Golem somewhere between the last line and the one before. At this time, you could have called the Royal Carriages, but you no longer had any on the Tavern mat, so the game didn't gave you the option.

The bold lines show why you don't have them on the Tavern mat any more, you called them both on the Messenger!  You finished playing Messenger (and the Lurker coming earlier) before you finished playing Golem, so the game asked you if you want to call Royal Carriages on them, and you did, for the Messenger.

I don't know your deck at this point, but I guess waiting for the Golem to finish and calling one or both Royal Carriages on it might have been better, strategically. OTOH, you used 3 buys that turn, so calling Royal Carriage at least once on Messenger was likely justified.

I hope the next time something like this happens, you now know that you have to wait for both selected Action cards to finish resolving themselves before Golem has finished resolving, at which time the game will prompt you to potentially call your Royal Carriage(s) from the Tavern mat.

[And since I'm already asking...If I do have a Princed Action card, and on a particular turn I decide to use Royal Carriage on it; does that remove it from being Princed for the rest of the game?  Or do I get the RC double effect for that one turn, and subsequent turns go back to the normal Princed-card effect???]  :)

Calling Royal Carriage does nothing special to the card it plays, it doesn't move it around or anything that would mess with Prince tracking it. So unless the card moves itself while playing (say you trashed the Princed Mining Vilage for +$2 on the second playing due to Royal Carriage), the card will stay "in service of the Prince" for the rest of the game.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??
« Reply #2 on: 01 April 2021, 09:24:31 PM »
Thanks for the quick response.  I left out vital info (I now, in retrospect, see) from my OP.

Originally, I did NOT use Royal Carriage on any other card.  I "saved" the two RC cards that were on the Tavern mat, with the idea of using them on Golem.  But, at the end of my turn (and at all points in between), I was never given an opportunity to play RC on Golem.  So, I used "Undo" to go back and do that turn over...this time, playing RC 'earlier' in the turn, as you noted.

Of course I should have realized that, for anyone reviewing my turn, it looks like a standard turn, with me playing RC during a Golem phase, with nothing out of the ordinary.

I am not sure if there is a way to "test this out."  A way to bring up my past game, play that turn again without using RC on those other cards, to see if you can--in fact--get an option at some point to play RC on Golem.  [Cuz if there is such an option, I sure missed it.  I actually played Undo several times, carefully looking at the playing screen area for any indication that playing RC would re-play Golem at that point in the game/turn.]

(And thanks for the info on my last point.  That makes it pretty straightforward.)  :-)

Offline Ingix

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Re: Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??
« Reply #3 on: 02 April 2021, 12:20:14 AM »
I am not sure if there is a way to "test this out."  A way to bring up my past game, play that turn again without using RC on those other cards, to see if you can--in fact--get an option at some point to play RC on Golem. 

I did that, and it gave me the option. Notice that the button for the Royal Carriages shows the Golem picture:



Of course, I see that it would be much better if the text in the status bar would spell that out:

"Play or call a Royal Carriage on Golem".

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Interaction between Golem and Royal Carriage??
« Reply #4 on: 02 April 2021, 03:24:21 AM »
THANKS.

I guess I just missed it.  Even after hitting Undo and playing it over several times, specifically looking for that notice.  I feel old. [deep sigh]

I appreciate you spending the time and effort to make sure things were working properly.