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Author Topic: Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle  (Read 126 times)

Offline vail62

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Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle
« on: 18 October 2021, 06:07:04 AM »
I played Overload, selected Monument, but then decided I'd rather play it next turn (Turtle). On my next turn, I got +1 coin and not the +2 I should have received from Monument.

Offline josh bornstein

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Re: Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle
« Reply #1 on: 18 October 2021, 09:02:00 AM »
Don't forget to give us the game number.  If you still have it; please post again and give that critical information.  :-)

Offline Ingix

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Re: Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle
« Reply #2 on: 18 October 2021, 09:23:56 AM »
I looked at the game in question, and the following happened (copied from the log, "I" means what you did). This is a good example of some rules intricacies:

I plays an Overlord.
  I plays a Lighthouse.
    I gets +1 Action.
    I gets +$1.
I calls a Royal Carriage.
  I plays an Overlord again.
    I plays a Monument using Way of the Turtle.
      Way of the Turtle fails to set aside a Monument.

The most important thing to know about this situation is that Overlord (and similar cards, like Band of Misfits) got a wording change roughly 2 years ago.

The old wording made the Overlord "become" the other card as long as it was in play, but that's no longer true. The new wording (used in the online game) is

Quote
Overlord: Action - Command, 8D
Play a non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $5, leaving it there.

The new wording makes the Overlord never "change form", it stays an Overlord, but instead it plays the "chosen" card from the Supply, but leaves it there, it's not moving into play. That means you don't gain the card or otherwise add it to your deck, which is consistent with the old behavior.

OK, first you play Lighthouse with Overlord:

I plays an Overlord.
  I plays a Lighthouse.
    I gets +1 Action.
    I gets +$1.

That's the normal things you get when you play Lighthouse. As I said, the Lighthouse does not move into play. As the new Overlord text says, it stays in the Supply. If you look at your game board at this time, the Lighthouse you see in play is the one from your previous turn, not the one just played. If it was the one just played, it would be to the right of the Overlord:



That has an immediate consequence: When the "old" Lighthouse is discarded from play during Clean-Up this turn, you are no longer protected from attacks on your opponent's turn. Lighthouse reads, under the dividing line:

Quote
While you have this in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.

After his turn, you don't have a Lighthouse in play, so you are not protected!

So the turn continues:

I calls a Royal Carriage.
  I plays an Overlord again.
    I plays a Monument using Way of the Turtle.
      Way of the Turtle fails to set aside a Monument.

From what we saw above, the Monument played by Overlord is not moved into play. That means Way of the Turtle can't find it. It expects a played card to be in play, which the Monument isn't. That results in the bolded message above: The Monument is not set aside.

Now look at the text of Way of the Turtle:

Quote
Set this aside. If you did, play it at the start of your next turn.

The Way of the Turtle did not set the Monument aside, so it's isn't played next turn, just nothing happens because of this.

What you saw next turn, getting the +$1 was from the Lighthouse you played with Overlord!

What could you have done?

When you replay the Overlord with Royal Carriage, play the Overlord using Way of the Turtle! The Overlord is in play, so can be set aside, and next turn you can then decide what to play with it (can be Monument, or something else that seems reasonable next turn).


Offline vail62

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Re: Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle
« Reply #3 on: 18 October 2021, 09:40:40 PM »
Thank you @Ingix for this detailed summary of what happened. I now know how to play the Turtle more effectively.

I think the potential in-game hiccup was that once I had played my overlord as a monument with the royal carriage, the game prompted me to consider (again) how to play it: now or as a turtle. It was at that point that I realized it would be advantageous to wait, but by that point playing it as a Turtle would not even work (which I now know). I wonder if there's a way that the Way prompt could be muted in those scenarios so it doesn't tempt players to misplay the card after a royal carriage?

Either way, I won the game... so no worries. :)

Offline Ingix

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Re: Overlord + Monument + Way of the Turtle
« Reply #4 on: 18 October 2021, 10:41:41 PM »
It first prompted you how you wanted to play the Overlord, then it prompted you how to play the Monument.

There are many cases in Dominion where it it most often useless to do something, then in some corner cases it might be useful. The online game generellay allows you to shoot yourself in the foot (like here), because it can't know what corner cases exist (or may exist after the next or second to next expansion).