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Author Topic: rated game option  (Read 1711 times)

Offline ppsacco

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rated game option
« on: 25 February 2022, 06:22:00 AM »
When I select my kingdom cards and choose the rated option, the kingdom is thrown out.  Is the rated option only for random sets now??


Offline Ingix

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #1 on: 25 February 2022, 09:02:44 AM »
Yes.

The feature was abused by some to always make the same kingdoms and then wait on tables for unsuspecting players, who would then loose in a kingdom they saw for the first time but their opponent had already played lots of.

So now, if you select one card, or include more than 2 landscape cards, the "rated" switch is reset to "unrated" and if you force it to rated, the your selected kingdom cards are thrown out.

Offline eliasZ

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #2 on: 05 March 2022, 11:15:15 PM »
I miss the ability to play rated games with custom kingdoms.

I can kind of understand that it can be abused, but I think your way of dealing with it is unnecessarily heavy-handed.

Would it be possible for players joining tables to see the kingdom cards that have been picked, and give them the choice to join or not join?

Even if you have to disable the "rated game" option, I think you are too strict in how you decide when to disable it. It may arguably be fine for someone who picks one or more specific cards, but I think there is no reason to disable it for tables that only pick expansions, not specific cards. I can't imagine how this feature can be abused, say, by picking Base and Seaside and no other expansions (but if it can, I'd like to know how).

Offline Ingix

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #3 on: 06 March 2022, 09:12:26 AM »
I forwarded the cimplaint (that is not the only one of this kind) and made a suggestion how to allow "a few" costumizations without it becoming "cooking the board".

Offline ppsacco

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #4 on: 07 March 2022, 06:25:20 AM »
I forwarded the cimplaint (that is not the only one of this kind) and made a suggestion how to allow "a few" costumizations without it becoming "cooking the board".

Ditto...

We have about 15 players in our game group that detest random sets.  We have over 200 customized sets that we play and we seldom if ever allow new players to join our group without telling them the sets are customized for our enjoyment.  We all agree the theme sets are much more enjoyable.


Offline ppsacco

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #5 on: 07 March 2022, 06:29:42 AM »
I forwarded the cimplaint (that is not the only one of this kind) and made a suggestion how to allow "a few" costumizations without it becoming "cooking the board".

Why not simply allow a player to open a 'closed' table that can be set to rated so that subscribers can play custom sets with people they play with regularly.



Offline kieranmillar

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #6 on: 07 March 2022, 07:12:28 AM »
If you are playing with friends, why do the games need to be rated?

Offline ppsacco

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #7 on: 08 March 2022, 03:16:28 AM »
If you are playing with friends, why do the games need to be rated?

How else do you keep track of wins?  The whole point is to rate the players, what difference does it make if they are custom sets or not...I'll tell you why...custom sets are a LOT more challenging than random sets.  If for no other reason they should be allowed a rated play.  I've been playing this game since before it moved to this server and we have TWO random sets we've played over the years that had any real comparative challenge in them.  You may get two good cards working together in a random set, maybe three...certainly no more than that and there is no theme.  A created kingdom offers far more challenge as well as a great theme.


Offline kieranmillar

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #8 on: 08 March 2022, 08:16:45 AM »
How else do you keep track of wins?
The same way people do everywhere else. A spreadsheet, pen and paper, a whiteboard, the options are limitless. This game's rating system is very bad for tracking wins, there is no win:loss ratio and each game will move the number by a different amount depending on the matchup. And what happens if someone then plays on rated automatch with their account? Well now your win / loss tracking is completely out of whack. If you want a win tracker, this definitely isn't the system for that.

The whole point is to rate the players, what difference does it make if they are custom sets or not...I'll tell you why...custom sets are a LOT more challenging than random sets.
Yeah because the people who shoot up to the top of the leaderboard by playing the same kingdom over and over, a thing that has actually happened many times, sure is a challenge. I am sure your friends don't utilise that particular loophole, but it's not one that should exist. And its a waste of everyone's time having to investigate and ban accounts when that time could be spent elsewhere. Rating systems only work when everyone's playing under similar conditions, and cooked boards are definitely not that.

I've been playing this game since before it moved to this server and we have TWO random sets we've played over the years that had any real comparative challenge in them.  You may get two good cards working together in a random set, maybe three...certainly no more than that and there is no theme.  A created kingdom offers far more challenge as well as a great theme.
If random kingdoms are so much less challenging, I look forward to seeing you on top of the leaderboard or league soon because of all your experience playing Dominion only on hard mode. It's cool that you love playing designed boards with your friends, I am not in any way going to claim that's a wrong way to enjoy Dominion or anything like that. The thing with designing boards though, is that you tend to lose the unexpected synergies that make full random so challenging. Cards don't have to synergise in obvious ways in order to synergise. If you think random boards only tend to have two or three cards that work together maybe you are unable to see boards for their true challenge because you're too used to playing only on boards that blast out their synergies into your face like a foghorn. Of course, sometimes random kingdoms really are 6 village piles or Wharf-Big Money, but they are the rare exception.

Offline eliasZ

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #9 on: 09 March 2022, 06:18:42 AM »
kieranmillar, about why games with friends need to be rated, why not? The point of the rating system is to get an estimate as to how good you are at playing the game, and the more data it gets, the better. It shouldn't matter whether I am playing with friends or strangers. My result when playing with friends should allow the rating system to get a better estimate of my ability, which will help me find more suitable players for future automatched games.

Offline Mersapers

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #10 on: 10 March 2022, 11:31:26 PM »
I'm a newbie to posting, but I've been playing Dominion for many years. Playing with my friends is the best, and themed games are great fun, but randomization is the only way to go for rated games. It levels the playing field and ensures we are all being judged on the same criteria.

Now, if there were standardized themes offered that carried their own rating, that would be fine, too. I've seen customized rating systems in other games. That way, all players would be playing for a rating within each of those themes and the selected kingdoms/cards for each would be made known (and could be prepared for) in advance, perhaps in a separate tab. This kind of set up might satisfy those who want to play "more challenging" levels while still being rated, but only with peers within the same theme.

But let's not compare apples to oranges. As things stand right now, randomization is the only fair way to play rated games.

Offline Zinefer

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2022, 02:50:00 AM »
Yeah I think Mersapers is right. The issue is that random kingdoms and custom kingdoms are just two different games and perhaps each could have it's own rating.

Offline ethanraduns

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #12 on: 12 March 2022, 03:44:07 AM »
Hey would love to search for tables with platinumss and colonies

Offline artsfols

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #13 on: 12 March 2022, 05:29:43 PM »
Question:
This is a hypothetical.  Can I move myself up the ELO ladder by playing rated games against a pool of known dummies?   Asking for a friend.

Offline Ingix

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Re: rated game option
« Reply #14 on: 12 March 2022, 09:28:43 PM »
What is a "known dummy"?