Making things easier for Dominion Newcomers

[Bbl]

The new Client is really nice as it is, but I still think, there are a few decisions that are based too much of the needs of the established Dominion Community - minor decisions that can make it really hard for a newcomer to grasp the basics concepts of Dominion. Here's a list of things, I noticed:

1) The lack of animations was already mentioned here: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=576.0
2) The stacking of Cards from turn 1 on is unnecessarily confusing in my opinion: If you draw a hand of 3 Coppers and 2 Estates, it is really hard to realize that you do not hold 2 Cards (the ones you see), but 5. The only indicator is the red number at the top, which is easy to overlook (and could be anything, if you are new). Making Fun is far more visual here with showing all 5 Cards & I think it helps selling the base concept. Obviously, this in return creates the space & selection problems we all know and which the new client solves.
-> A simple fix would be to stack your Hand Cards only if your Cards in hand reach a certain threshold, that cannot displayed in this UI anymore (i.e. a hand with more than 6 Cards). This way, the very first turn of every new player is pretty clear and looks the same as in IRL Dominion. Only when the player dives a bit deeper, it gets more complicated and even then merely, when there is actual need for it (there are plenty of boards where you stay with a 5 Card hand from beginning to the end). This would also make it far easier to follow handsize-reducing effects like Militia, Oasis, etc.
-> As usual, you could make this display variant an option to turn off in the Options Menu.
3) Why do you still use the old revised Copper / Silver / Gold cards?
-> Use the newer version with the big numbers on it, is far more clear in terms of comprehending what they provide you with: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Copper.jpg
4) From my experience with Casual Users, Right-Clicking for extra Information is a tough call, even if it seems natural to PC users. Both older & younger players tend to use only the Left-Click, as they are used from Touch Devices. But if you do not use the Right-Click, you will never get any clue, what a Card is supposed to do. Left-Click for immediate purchase can also cause a lot of unintended purchase, while you are still exploring the Interface - definitely not the best first user experience.
-> I would recommend to swap the mouse buttons, and bring it closer to the way Making Fun works: Left-Click does give the information popup and in it there is a BIG +-Button for purchase, Right-Click purchases the card-shaped thing immediately (for the experienced players).

I do not want to dumb things down, or make the game harder to use for the Hardcore crowd. But it would be a shame, if such UI problems would hamper the success of this awesome version & company.

[yed]

Upvoting 3)
I would also like to see the big number on basic treasure cards.

[MVoltaire]

+1 for all list items.

[allanfieldhouse]

The new art with the large number is definitely better.

I also like your idea of switching the left and right click functions. My first game I bought something when I was trying to read the card text (and then I couldn't figure out the undo interface). The current left-click functionality of instantly playing treasures and buying a card is a great feature, but it's a more advanced feature that a brand new player almost shouldn't even be told about initially. For new players it's much better to have a deliberate "play treasures" followed by a "buy this card". And the first thing a new player is going to do is left click on a card to see what it even is (and thus buying it).

[derg17]

After teaching lots of new Dominion players IRL and online, I agree with these.

One new player said, "I guess I won't use my touch screen to play anymore." I was confused why. But a new player reads the card text so many times in a game, many more times than he buys something. So it was too much long pressing on a touch screen, to right click, for it to be worth it.

I'm adding two:

5) I also think it is confusing that you can buy something without putting your money in play, (I know it automatically puts money in play, but that isn't obvious to a new person). This is a very nice feature to me, but when playing with newer players they often don't understand the importance of putting money "in play." I worry this will increase this misunderstanding.

6) As well, I think it is confusing that when there is one card left in the supply it doesn't say one.

Most of these things were built in a way that I love them. (as an experienced player) So if some of them could be options that might be best.

[markus]

Regarding the stacking of cards, I guess it should be optional as on MF. I'm used to not auto-stacking them, but I'm probbaly getting convinced now that stacking is better. And when I have to adjust to a new interface anyway, I might as well adjust to this.  ;)

What bothers me a bit currently, is that drawing new cards will shift the cards in your hand. So when I want to quickly play say my 3 copies of Treasury, I have to be careful that I don't end up playing a different card the second or third time. One way to fix this, would be to not shift the other copies of the card that was played last. The hand might look less nice because the cards are not evenly distributed anymore...but it might be worth a try.

[allanfieldhouse]

I've traditionally been a non-stacker, but I think Menagerie has finally convinced me that always stacking is better. I do agree that it probably makes more sense for new players to start out non-stacked for small hand sizes though.

[werothegreat]

If it must be stacked, at least have it be a splayed stack, like it used to be on iso - you could clearly see there were three cards stacked on top of each other, rather than just a number in the corner.  Add the number if the stack goes over, say, 5 cards.

[zonecontrol1984]

Additionally, it would be nice to have an option to display all the card text rather than just the name. This goes for events/landmarks as well. It may eliminate some of the right-click/left-click problems as well. If it's a matter of space concerns, having it optional would be nice for the sake of those with large resolutions.

[Elanchana]

5) I also think it is confusing that you can buy something without putting your money in play, (I know it automatically puts money in play, but that isn't obvious to a new person). This is a very nice feature to me, but when playing with newer players they often don't understand the importance of putting money "in play." I worry this will increase this misunderstanding.

Yeah, it's nice to have the shortcut, but that's going to be hell for new players. Maybe make it an optional feature, along with autoplay and stuff? Like "Buy cards to play treasures: on/off"

[allanfieldhouse]

I've been thinking about the left vs right click thing, and now that auto-playing treasures is off by default, I think the left vs right is fine how it is.

[Jacob Marley]

I'm adding two:

5) I also think it is confusing that you can buy something without putting your money in play, (I know it automatically puts money in play, but that isn't obvious to a new person). This is a very nice feature to me, but when playing with newer players they often don't understand the importance of putting money "in play." I worry this will increase this misunderstanding.

6) As well, I think it is confusing that when there is one card left in the supply it doesn't say one.

Most of these things were built in a way that I love them. (as an experienced player) So if some of them could be options that might be best.

There should be an option to disable the buy without playing your money feature.  That confused me (of course I was just watching, not playing) but in order to keep things straight in my head, I'm thinking that I'd always play out my treasures before buying. 

[LaLight]

I'm adding two:

5) I also think it is confusing that you can buy something without putting your money in play, (I know it automatically puts money in play, but that isn't obvious to a new person). This is a very nice feature to me, but when playing with newer players they often don't understand the importance of putting money "in play." I worry this will increase this misunderstanding.

6) As well, I think it is confusing that when there is one card left in the supply it doesn't say one.

Most of these things were built in a way that I love them. (as an experienced player) So if some of them could be options that might be best.

There should be an option to disable the buy without playing your money feature.  That confused me (of course I was just watching, not playing) but in order to keep things straight in my head, I'm thinking that I'd always play out my treasures before buying.

There is such an option already, in your personal settings in the lobby.

[Mic Qsenoch]

There should be an option to disable the buy without playing your money feature.  That confused me (of course I was just watching, not playing) but in order to keep things straight in my head, I'm thinking that I'd always play out my treasures before buying.

There is such an option already, in your personal settings in the lobby.

To clarify, by default the autobuy feature is off now, you have to turn it on in your personal settings.

[JW]

When I play Ambassador with only Copper in hand, the client automatically reveals Copper for me, but doesn't give any indication that it has done so. It's confusing when it goes straight to "how many to return."

The same principle applies to other cards where choices are made automatically - that the choice is being made automatically needs to be displayed prominently.

[Stef]

When I play Ambassador with only Copper in hand, the client automatically reveals Copper for me, but doesn't give any indication that it has done so. It's confusing when it goes straight to "how many to return."

The same principle applies to other cards where choices are made automatically - that the choice is being made automatically needs to be displayed prominently.

It certainly should. This will happen when we get the card animations straightened out.

[ravi]

I may not be in the majority here, but I actually would go one step further than just showing all automatic decisions. I would recommend turning off almost all automatic decisions by default. I think clicking through even the most trivial decisions (clicking estate when you swindle your opponent's estate and there are no other 2-cost cards for example) is important when learning the game. It gets you to really understand what the cards do. Sure, have an option to automatically do these things for more advanced users, but not by default.

[scottc]

I would recommend turning off almost all automatic decisions by default.

I agree.  A very easy way to make this work from the users' point of view is that the message they have to click on would also have a checkbox saying "don't ask me to confirm these decisions in the future".  That way the most experienced players would have everything configured to their liking within a few plays, and the newbies can turn them off gradually as they learn the game.  It would be easier than going through a list of options in your profile and trying to imagine whether a confirmation is useful or not.

That might not be easy to program though.

[Bbl]

I've been thinking about the left vs right click thing, and now that auto-playing treasures is off by default, I think the left vs right is fine how it is.

Having played a bit more with the new client, I still disagree. Even though auto-purchase is disabled by now, the new debt cards from Empires are still real traps for newcomers. You click on them to see what they do, and wham, you're knee deep in debt.

One could argue, that Empires is hidden behind the Gold Subscription anyway, but there might be future deals like a 1-month All-In trial or the like and I would make sure that dominion works even with these advanced addons as smoothly as with the base set.

As mentioned above, I also totally agree with 'Show everything' which to me also means turning off all automatic decisions by default. Handling it with a 'Never as me again' might be an option for this (though it might feel confusing for newcomers again)

[Donald X.]

I think right-click makes sense for "Get information," that seems more in line with how mouse buttons are used in general in the world of computers in 2016. Left is "do the thing," right gets information and options and things.

For example, here, at these forums, using Chrome, I will post this by clicking on Post. It's a left-click. Right-click brings up options.

[Polliwop]

What to do when you forgot your Dominion password and get to http://www.dominion.games/private-beta/ ?