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Author Topic: Some comparisons with Making Fun  (Read 3348 times)

Offline Martin plays Piano

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Some comparisons with Making Fun
« on: 28 December 2016, 01:59:06 PM »
Hi,
I’d like to share some ideas in comparison to  the Making Fun solution, which I played some thousand times now – and specifically the graphical features of MF by the way were not the badest. I am not talking about gimmicks, sounds and music, but what I am missing after 2 days of bots testing is especially the interaction feeling.

1) The only way to “understand”, what your opponent is doing (or has done) is reading the log file – all actions are happening within seconds - this is very technically. You get no graphical support like showing bought cards, trashed cards, you have no real chance to take care about other players decisions etc.
At the end this might be not important, because it is in the log file anyway, but the impression, that the opponent players are doing a real-time turn, it’s not there.  In MF I always got a good feeling what even the bots are doing, without reading the log file.

2) Why wasting the top screen area with facedown cards from the opponents ? – and even more confusing why showing the visible pile headfirst ? – perhaps this space can be used for the information missing from point 1) (like a graphical log file)

3) The pile counters are quite small – you get no pre-warning, when it’s going to 3 or less. Sometimes I was surprised about that (also due to the missing chord sound, if someone is buying a province / colony). Of course this is nearer to the real card gaming, and professional players will have to keep an eye especially on the green piles anyhow, but it could be a helping hand for other players to know, that game’s end is approaching.
To avoid sounds you can use blinking symbols etc. (as an option)

4) When the opponent takes the last turn to end the game, you get no information how and why – this refers again to point 1), the player makes a turn, but you are not aware of it – the screen is switched directly to the results and you have to scroll into the log file again, to learn what really happened - quite unemotional for a finished game. I don't need fanfares like in MF but a bit more victory feeling could increase the desire to play again.

I have read in a former thread, that is was intended from you to be nearer to Isotrophic, which I am not familiar with, but I guess this was more fact- and data driven implementation. Again, professionals might not have problems with that, but occasional players (or newbies) could be overstrained or bewildered, because the game interactions take place in a written log file only – and they could ask, where is the game feeling.

Offline Donald X.

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Re: Some comparisons with Making Fun
« Reply #1 on: 29 December 2016, 03:23:01 AM »
1) The only way to “understand”, what your opponent is doing (or has done) is reading the log file – all actions are happening within seconds - this is very technically. You get no graphical support like showing bought cards, trashed cards, you have no real chance to take care about other players decisions etc.
At the end this might be not important, because it is in the log file anyway, but the impression, that the opponent players are doing a real-time turn, it’s not there.  In MF I always got a good feeling what even the bots are doing, without reading the log file.
For me this remains the most significant problem. The log should be completely nonessential; instead it is completely essential.

Me personally - and I know this has no chance and I've said it before, but I'm repeating it because I really would do this - I personally would remove the log completely, get the game functioning without it, then add it back in. That way you would for sure have a program that worked well with no log.

Offline Martin plays Piano

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Re: Some comparisons with Making Fun
« Reply #2 on: 29 December 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
I didn’t expect that Donald himself posted to my thoughts around interactions and game feeling – he even made it to the “most significant problem”. Ok, I wouldn’t go so far, but there might be the danger, that the game loses a bit of its fun factor due to 3 reasons:
1) Interactions of other players only traceable via text-based log file
- see my initial post
2) Graphic design not (yet) state of the art
- some posts mentioned the lobby design, which is ok, but rather functional than beautiful
- also the gaming area appears to me untidy / heterogeneous (perhaps I don’t know the correct English word for this) – I would say it’s today not yet perfect

3) Missing role identification (currently you can only chose a name)
- by far not important for some of us – but I guess to address some thousand players in 2017 a majority of them is keen to be “someone” – and to give personality in their role with pictures, icons, avatars etc.

This is all ineffectual in case you are really planning a focus on technical / academical gaming – but this will be a solution for the professionals only, in which I assume the Dominion community will persist with some hundred players then.

But you want to address many more people (otherwise I wouldn’t understand your price model), so keep in mind, they want to be fascinated from the platform, they want to get in touch with other players maybe in an illusory world (which Dominion is at the end). To say it clear, the lobby and community function was awful in MF (it was nearly not there) – so you did a big step further to that what we ever had. Many people crave for a better pre-game environment, and it could be essential for your success to provide this with an exciting solution.

Of course they want to play Dominion first (and by the way this works mostly perfect as I have seen in all my beta testing), and of course you should start with the current approach next week to roll it out to the masses, and of course I will stay with the game and of course I will support your initiative, but…

… please be prepared for future plans around the game’s layout and game’s environment (which is beyond the technology of Dominion cards functionality) – I’m sure, the bigger audience in January will expect more than a card game only.

Offline scottc

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Re: Some comparisons with Making Fun
« Reply #3 on: 30 December 2016, 05:31:11 AM »
I think the people who played on Isotropic will be pleased with how well the site functions technically and will have no trouble at all, but those that played only on other sites will be a bit confused with the current interface.  On MF everything is so clearly laid out and all actions are visible - the pros don't need that but the rest of us do.  I currently enjoy playing at MF more than on the beta (although I do like using the newest expansion on the beta).

I do believe that the developers have done the most important work first and I'm confident that they will be able to adjust the UI as needed until most everyone is happy.  It's just too bad they don't have a few more weeks to perfect it before the launch.

Offline Martin plays Piano

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Re: Some comparisons with Making Fun
« Reply #4 on: 30 December 2016, 10:30:53 AM »
I totally agree with that - and for sure I want to be the last one to say, the new initiative doesn't fit my expectations, nothing was ready with the first day.
The only reason to open this thread was my fear, that layout design, artwork and game interaction could be underestimated from the developers, and to give them a clear feedback statement (like other testers did) to re-think some graphical features and to optimize the game traceability.
From my perspective it should be very encouraging for them having the chance to set new benchmarks for Dominion in the nearer future, which the broader community of players will love you for (- and of course will pay you for).

Offline dcresap

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Access to the new Dominion
« Reply #5 on: 01 January 2017, 08:15:45 AM »
 :'( I get the quick picture of a castle and then a black screen!  Nothing happens!  Any suggestions?  I got the email so I am a past user.