A few questions/observations...

[knadles]

I'm sure these are all answered somewhere, but frankly, I have no desire to dig around the forums. I'm not a gamer and I'm not a chatter. I just like to play tabletop Dominion with my friends and I purchased the online game to work on my chops and kill time during my lunch break.

1) I see the word "subscription" being bandied about. I have a subscription for my purchases through 2017? Does that mean at the end of the year I will be required to start paying a monthly fee? Because if it does, I can guarantee you I'll be done playing electronic Dominion on Dec. 31, 2017. Guarantee. Bad enough that Adobe is hitting me for a subscription these days and M$ is trying to go that route as well. I'm not paying a subscription fee to play a board game.

2) Your interface needs work. This is not just "I liked things the old way and now I'm sour grapes." Well, there's a bit of that, but seriously...two clicks to trash a card? Scroll through the dialog to see what's been trashed? Scroll through the dialog to see what just happened when I played a card that affected other cards? Are you serious??? And why are the action buttons not grouped together? Has anyone at your company ever studied UX design? (I have.) You may want to look at the version of the game yours has replaced and steal a few ideas from those guys. I had minor issues with them, but this is a whole new world of bad choices.

3) No app? Is one in the works? One of my biggest complaints with the old version was not being able to play it without an internet connection.

I might have included a few comments on the bots, but I followed your directions and started what I thought was a 3-person game and it turned out I was the only one playing in a 1-person game. I didn't even know that was possible. Amusingly pointless, although I guess it had the advantage of trying things out in a no-pressure, fun-free environment.

I'm assuming the game is in some kind of active development and this is basically a beta right now. I'll probably play a few more games in the next few days, but my impulse is to hang things up for a few months to see what you guys come up with when the game is a little more "for real." Honestly, I'm not one of those guys who just wants to dump on people. I'm sure you've done your best so far, but coming from the other version (which again, had some issues), I find this variant pretty disappointing. Given the shift in vendors, I guess I had been hoping for some kind of upgrade.

Best,
Pete

[meowish]

I came to express my disappointment in the subscription model, it's not enough that we actually have to pay AGAIN, but we have to pay yearly, this is just ridiculous. I don't care about the "politics" that goes on, I paid for my game, I am expecting to have full access to it. This removes all the confidence that I have for the copyright holder of Dominion (Rio Grande Games) to be able to choose a developer that gives me confidence to support. The last Dominion has been in Beta forever, and WE'VE PAID for the hardly playable mess on the promise of it improving, there is no way that I'm paying again.

[Stef]

I came to express my disappointment in the subscription model, it's not enough that we actually have to pay AGAIN, but we have to pay yearly, this is just ridiculous. I don't care about the "politics" that goes on, I paid for my game, I am expecting to have full access to it. This removes all the confidence that I have for the copyright holder of Dominion (Rio Grande Games) to be able to choose a developer that gives me confidence to support. The last Dominion has been in Beta forever, and WE'VE PAID for the hardly playable mess on the promise of it improving, there is no way that I'm paying again.

Sorry to hear that. I can understand that it's far from ideal from your point of view.
But no matter what we chose, people who were under the impression that they already owned everything were always going to be disappointed. Note that we didn't get any of the money that you paid.

I am convinced that the model we chose fits an online game much better, and all we can do now is hope to do better in the future. The beauty of a subscription model is that you can always terminate it if you lose faith in the developers.

[Eye Urn]

I absolutely refused to pay the previous developers any money because I had already bought the game and was not going to shell out per-expansion yet again.  I am, however, willing to pay a modest monthly fee in order to play the game online.  Paying by the month guarantees a steady stream of income for the providers, ensures that you only pay when you're interested in playing, and requires no large up-front commitment.  I can see the problem for those that paid for what they thought was ownership of the cards online, but they should have realized that there was no such thing as permanent online ownership.  I have very little sympathy for people who decided it was a good deal to buy digital things based on the idea that they are theirs forever, because they absolutely aren't.  And at the same time, I have little sympathy for people who don't want to pay a monthly fee to use an online service.  Running the servers and handling problems as they arise is ongoing and not related to the amount of sales, but is related to the number of people playing.  This is in contrast to a physical product where most costs are based on the level of sales, but where the manufacturer has no requirement to invest in supporting the product after the sale.  If you can't understand this crucial difference between online services and physical goods, well, there's nothing anyone can do to convince you.

[RoyG]

Note that we didn't get any of the money that you paid.

You didn't get high marks in public relations, did you?

Suffice to say, you made a bad business deal and are terrible at marketing.  That is not my problem.

Legalities aside, the only companies I have ever seen pull off a transition like this have offered a product far and away superior to its predecessors.  Yes, you have every right to do this.  Brick and mortar video stores also had every right to continue with a business model that had them taking loyal customers to court for late fees and in the process so alienated their base that those customers had no choice but to embrace alternatives.  Now, you may believe that since you own the rights, there are no alternatives.  I can assure you that you are incorrect as their are hundreds of card games online now run by companies that don't act as though they are doing their customer base a favor merely by existing.

The product you are offering is orders of magnitude worse than its predecessor.  Given the its current state and the timing and the terrible public relations strategy on display here, I believe it is clear you are relying on the customers you inherited but who are a burden on you since you didn't get any of our money to be your Beta testers before the 'real' launch at the end of 2017.  We get to work for the privilege of playing your little game.

You must be joking.

None of my group, which has collectively spent thousands on this game. will be playing this version of the game for any reason.  Life is too short, and we better things to do.

[TwoWhiteBears]

Note that we didn't get any of the money that you paid.

I believe it is clear you are relying on the customers you inherited but who are a burden on you since you didn't get any of our money to be your Beta testers before the 'real' launch at the end of 2017.  We get to work for the privilege of playing your little game.

Excellent observation.

[meathead40]

Wow.  Y'all are a tough crowd.

I hated Goko/Makingfun and am glad for this new effort from the new team.  It will get better in the future.  Looking forward to playing it.

[TwoWhiteBears]

Wow.  Y'all are a tough crowd.

I hated Goko/Makingfun and am glad for this new effort from the new team.  It will get better in the future.  Looking forward to playing it.

I hated MakingFun, and somehow this is 10x worse. It's unplayable.

[Eye Urn]

I had very high hopes for this project, but it's definitely still a work in progress.  I know that there's no requirement that ShuffleIt provides any transition assistance to players, but I think it's a bit too much to say that what is being offered as of launch is worthy of being called any compensation in transition.  I wish there just was far more done at launch than there actually is.  I will wait expectantly as new features are implemented, but I hope that there's not too much ill will from the transitional customers who lost something far more functional.

I have a suspicion that people who were that interested in the new product that they tried it out the instant it was available are only bluffing (or at least realize that their threat was all bluster) when they say they are never going to come back to this product because of its launch failures.  They somehow had enough interest to try it out and then bitch on the forums, instead of waiting for launch problems to be dealt with and just going on with something else.  It, combined with the fact that they actually were somehow interested in playing Goko's piece of crap, makes me think they'll come back when everything's actually ready to go.

[allanfieldhouse]

You guys need to calm down a bit. I'm firmly in the camp of "MF was better than the current implementation", but that was an established, mature product. The new version is clearly not done, but neither was the old version when it was released.

The new version has a ton of small improvements compared to the old version, and the developers have acknowledged the (many) areas that fall short. Give 'em a chance.

[Seprix]

People just need to relax. The interface is already way better than Making Fun's, and it's only going to get better moving forward.

[TwoWhiteBears]

People just need to relax. The interface is already way better than Making Fun's, and it's only going to get better moving forward.

A lot of people think it's much worse than MF's though. Why would we have faith that it's going to get better?

We need to bitch about it so ShuffleIt knows how much we dislike their design choices. I don't think just waiting around for them to make their client better is reasonable, especially considering the typical response I've seen from the admins here is basically "we like what we've done."

[allanfieldhouse]

People just need to relax. The interface is already way better than Making Fun's, and it's only going to get better moving forward.

I'm all for defending the new version under the assumption that it's getting better. But it's inarguably worse than MF currently. Sure they've made improvements in some areas, but other things are just flat out broken or poorly designed. Calling reserves, journey token, trash area, "naming" a knight, etc. They know about these problems, and they're going to fix them, so I give them a bit of a free pass. But don't claim the new version is already better than the old one.

We need to bitch about it so ShuffleIt knows how much we dislike their design choices. I don't think just waiting around for them to make their client better is reasonable, especially considering the typical response I've seen from the admins here is basically "we like what we've done."

Specific constructive criticism is awesome, and I'm sure the developers love getting it. Simply bitching at them is worse than pointless -- it wastes everyone's time. Look at RoyG's post above as an example of a completely useless post. He's just mad and venting (but not trying to get anything fixed).

For examples of useful feedback, check out the "Features" forum. Especially the posts from mid-December after the "public reveal" stream. There's tons of specific examples of things that suck in the new interface, but the people (usually) aren't bitching -- they're trying to provide suggestions to create a better product. And there are replies from the developers like "Yeah, I agree. We'll get to this eventually."

[tufftaeh]

A lot of people think it's much worse than MF's though. Why would we have faith that it's going to get better?

Because the beta testers have experienced many improvements over a short period of time.

We need to bitch about it so ShuffleIt knows how much we dislike their design choices. I don't think just waiting around for them to make their client better is reasonable, especially considering the typical response I've seen from the admins here is basically "we like what we've done."

You have made a very helpful first post, listing the issues you don't like. Unfortunately, you have given that post a very stupid title. Continuing to bitch is contraproductive as well. All the posts of other users calling the new client horrible without listing one single actual issue they have don't help either, so I would rather suggest to list actual issues instead.

UI design preferences can be different for different people. It's helpful to suggest alternatives, with an explanation why they might be better. If it turns out that there are relevant numbers of supporters on both sides of the fence, there might even be an option in the user settings at some time in the future.

Finally, I recommend to post the issues in a friendly and constructive way because this increases the chance of being listened to.

Edit: ninja'd...

[gauderio]

I came to express my disappointment in the subscription model, it's not enough that we actually have to pay AGAIN, but we have to pay yearly, this is just ridiculous. I don't care about the "politics" that goes on, I paid for my game, I am expecting to have full access to it. This removes all the confidence that I have for the copyright holder of Dominion (Rio Grande Games) to be able to choose a developer that gives me confidence to support. The last Dominion has been in Beta forever, and WE'VE PAID for the hardly playable mess on the promise of it improving, there is no way that I'm paying again.

I´m also really upset with this changing.
In 2016, I bought three expansions forever (not a signature: a buying). Now, I get these expansions in new server, but just for one year. Besides, I lost 30 coins I couldn´t spend.

So I bought three expansions forever and now I can enjoy them for just one year.....Not fair. Really.

I can suggest a live signature for me and other players who bought expansions. At least for the expansions we bought.

And about the 30 coins, I don´t know.....maybe a signature for 1-2 years of another expansion for free.....


Besides, I don´t need credits in another game. I bought Dominion ´cause I like Dominion.

[knadles]

I'm old enough to remember a time (and I realize this is the point where the developers stop reading my post, if in fact any of them started) when you didn't release a product until it was ready to go. We've somehow moved into this half-assed beta world, in which you throw some half-cooked spaghetti at the wall, get people to eat it, and then make the sauce.

I'm fine with beta stuff. I've been a beta tester and provided what I believe was helpful feedback because the developers used my suggestions. But in those cases, I signed on to be a beta tester and I knew what I was getting into.

In this case, I did not. I purchased an app and some expansions and they *stopped working completely* two days ago. Now from one point of view, it could be considered magnanimous for the developers to "grant me access" to a game that another developer got paid for. But as a consumer I've been forced to make a switch I didn't want or request. You didn't make a better mousetrap, you (and Rio Grande) stole the mousetrap I had been using and want me to dance for a new one. And be happy about it.

On the other hand, I'm also young and practical enough to know that digital stuff isn't forever. I'll forgo my extended rant about the idea of paying for a toaster only to have the manufacturer "revoke my license" to use it six months later. Believe me, I can go on and on about that one, but that's the world we've made and now we have to live in it.

I will, however, make a deal with the developers: build a quality app I can pay for. Once. Make the expansions cost a few bucks and charge me for the ones I purchase. Once each. Include an AI that makes the app playable offline. I'll pay your one-time fees--no complaints, I'll play with your toy, and I'll leave you alone unless I decide to purchase further expansions or find any significant bugs I believe you should know about, at which point I'll submit a report so you can improve your app, make it more desirable to future purchasers, and cement your reputation as an active and responsive developer.

Regarding the subscription model, save it for those folks who who wish to compete against other humans. Personally, I find online play to be tiresome, especially when another player decides to walk his dog mid-turn. But operating and maintaining the online servers is a legitimate expense and should be paid for accordingly.

This is what I would prefer. I suspect such a model would go a long way to soothing the complaints of others as well. I can play Catan on the bus. I can play Carcasonne on the bus. I can't play Dominion on the bus, but I would be willing to pay for that privilege.

Also, seriously, the UI ain't great. To respond to the other poster...yes, UI can be a matter of taste, but there are also general UX principles that are best not ignored. I believe "The Design of Everyday Things," by Don Norman, should be required reading for developers. Remember: the gas pedal goes on the right and the brake pedal goes on the left. Switch them at your (and everyone else's) peril.

Pete

[ToasterTwo]

yes, this is a bad, incomplete implementation. 

I would beta test for the developers but this is to frustrating to even try.

I have all the expansions and have played a long time.  I will miss being able to play dominion online.

I will check back in a few months to see if things are better.  Til then -

Bye

[E.Honda]

Regarding the subscription model, save it for those folks who who wish to compete against other humans. Personally, I find online play to be tiresome, especially when another player decides to walk his dog mid-turn. But operating and maintaining the online servers is a legitimate expense and should be paid for accordingly.

There will be a standalone offline version you can purchase with a one time payment i believe.

[LasseBJ]

1) I see the word "subscription" being bandied about. I have a subscription for my purchases through 2017? Does that mean at the end of the year I will be required to start paying a monthly fee? Because if it does, I can guarantee you I'll be done playing electronic Dominion on Dec. 31, 2017. Guarantee.

This Post needs a BIG Thumps Up or LIKE Button, i bet the majority of people visiting your site was comming here to post this one comment.
myself included.