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If the draw pile or target pile was empty then I would think this as a bug in the logs.  The idea behind the logs (in my opinion) is to provide a more detailed view of what happened.  If a card fails to trigger for whatever reason the logs should indicate it.  Otherwise the viewer of the logs sees it as a bug, not as a consequence of a pile being empty.

Although I now see this is in the list of known bugs.  Does that mean it has been confirmed that a reshuffle by the diplomat means the Jester doesn't trigger?

Hi UncleLion and others who have added to this thread,

Since this post is now almost 2 weeks old without any kind of reply from a Moderator, I'll take the 2 minutes to respond.  I want you to know that I appreciate your reporting of issues and that this issue is not being ignored by ShuffleIt, but is on their list of issues to address.

This particular issue is a known one and will be corrected sometime in the future.  If you refer to the sticky post of  Known Bot Issues (http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1218.0) you'll see under the subsection "Clealrly stupid plays" the following two points.

• trashing valuable cards
• sometimes trashing whole deck

Again thanks for your posts.  Please keep reporting issues as you find them as ShuffleIt's users are important to them.

Noticed an abnormal move with the AI when it plays the Jack of All Trades card, where the Bot will often trash a Province or a Duchy card and then buy a lower value card or buy back that same card. I could see a very rare instance where trashing one of those moves could be appropriate but it's generally pretty odd and hurts the player doing it. May be a good idea to take a look at the underlying logic in the AI.

Hi, mrbeermug

Since this post is now almost 2 weeks old without any kind of reply from a Moderator, I'll take the 2 minutes to respond.  I want you to know that I appreciate your reporting of issues and that this issue is not being ignored by ShuffleIt, but is on their list of issues to address.

This particular issue is a known one and will be corrected sometime in the future.  If you refer to the sticky post of  Known Bot Issues (http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1218.0) you'll see under the subsection "Clealrly stupid plays" the following two points.

• trashing valuable cards
• sometimes trashing whole deck

Again thanks for your post.  Please keep reporting issues as you find them as ShuffleIt's users are important to them.

Note to moderators:  This thread should probably be moved to be under the AI bugs subsection of the Bug Reports forum area.

You can effectively do this play variant now with the online chat.

When you see your first hand you know what your second hand will be.  So you can decide both purchases immediately.  Type them in the chat and send them at an agreed upon time.  ie) Send in 5 seconds... 5. 4. 3. 2. 1.  Then stick to what you wrote.

It's an interesting variant that I'll try at some point, but really I would rather have the current interface cleaned up, tokens implemented, play areas visible, choosing of cards, decent bots, offline play, etc. etc. etc...

I could see this potentially being added as a mod by a third party it there was enough interest.  There seems to be a number of mods already in development.

I'm with jsh here. I actually find the "gl" at the beginning of a game strange. I have had a few instances lately of better rated players ranting at me for daring to win a game. I'm glad they didn't wish for my good luck at the start of the game.

I wonder if the assumption here is that by wishing someone else good fortune you're giving up your own?  I personally want all players to have good luck (including me!).  If one person has good luck and the other bad, then it ends up being lopsided and not very enjoyable.  If everyone has bad luck you get a slow game with slow progression which is equally unpleasant.  If everyone has good luck you all get good hands, runs, etc and it makes for a quick and exciting game.  Keep in mind I'm not saying "I hope you win."  That would be silly.  Obviously I'm hoping I win, but I hope you have good luck too so that we get an interesting game.

As far as people ranting at you for daring to win... Well that's just poor gamesmanship.  I wouldn't want to play someone like that.  I'm sorry there are people like that here and I hope to avoid them in gameplay.

Wishing your opponent good luck in dominion is just asking for trouble.

Why is this asking for trouble?  No matter your skill level there is luck involved in this game.  Yes, it is mitigated luck, but there is still luck.  So how is wishing someone good luck asking for trouble?

I enjoy discussing games with people when I'm not tired, but I'm not one for scripted language.

We will have to agree to disagree here.  Part of what makes human interaction pleasurable are pleasantries.  Perhaps this is the Canadian in me speaking, but I honestly feel joy when I wish the stranger I'm passing in the street a good morning and I feel joy when someone does the same to me.  Even when we greet friends (both new and close)  "How are you doing?" is a pleasantry.  The person who doesn't know me well will probably respond with "Fine and how are you?"  The person who knows me well may respond "Well actually I'm having a rough day" and we may delve into a more in depth conversation.  How we respond to each other makes us human and the world a better place. 

Yes, there will always be people who don't respond in kind or who mean to hurt/harm with their comments.  However, to not engage can be just as hurtful.  Scripted language is how we start interactions and most discussions.  It's how we grow our friendships and relationships.  It's even how we engage on a regular basis.  Don't under estimate scripted language; it's important.  I'd encourage you to try and monitor every word you say in a day and analyze how much of it is "scripted".  I think you might be surprised by how much of our world is scripted and how that makes us more humane and kinder.

That's all I'm really saying here.  A few keystrokes makes the world a kinder place.  What's wrong with that?  Is it so burdensome on you to type "Hi",  "You've clearly beat me I'm going to resign",  "Gotta run... Sorry to leave",  or some other pleasantry?  I'm a firm believer of you get what you give.  Take the time to respect your other player.  The time they are giving to you.  The experience they are sharing with you.

I'll continue to try not to be annoyed by the silent players, perhaps language is a barrier for them, but if you can, be kind and spend the 5 seconds to type a message.

Stef on Discord Today at 12:45 AM #general-chatter (https://discord.gg/BJZ62hZ):

currently we're working on building a rating system, and providing a way for people to look at old logs

I find it interesting that basically the same discussion that I was involved with on discord broke out here.  I don't know if the preceding posts were because of the discussion I had on discord or if it's just a weird coincidence that they took place at roughly the same time.  I wasn't going to post it here, but since yed only provided part of the conversation I now feel the full context could be useful to some of the people posting in the forum who might not see the discord discussion.  If for no other reason then to prevent duplication of messages (another area I feel this forum could use help with... strong moderators that merge/link/lock duplicate conversations, but I digress...)

Anyhow, here is the full text of the conversation.  I've put it in code blocks since it is somewhat lengthy.  I note that at one point Stef indicated that they won't commit to schedules "at least not yet" so I am hopeful that they may at some point understand and accept that some customers want to be kept well informed and that doing so while more work also prevents other work. (like responding to these types of comments over and over)

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LaLight - Yesterday at 4:25 PM
well.. we will definitely improve the bot. Just not right now. He sometimes is not as bad as it seems ;)

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Oh for sure.  I've been beaten several times.  Usually because I'm focussed on my own stuff and don't realize they've jumped into points mode until too late.  I blame part of that on the lack of visual and audio clues that I grew used to with the MF version.  Retraining myself to actually look at the logs, which to me is time consuming and unideal, but it is what it is.
Improvements are coming and I appreciate that.  I just wish they were a bit faster coming.  Again I think that stems from thinking much of what I was expecting was going to be ready at launch.  I was quite surprised at the stuff not delivered at that point.
Don't get me wrong.  There's a lot of potential here, just wasn't where my expectations were sitting so I'm having to reframe things.  I'd encourage you all to keep providing information.  ie) Control the message.  The reality is in the absence of information people create misinformation.  Ideally I'd love to see actually ETA dates on the features list so that people at least have a vague idea of when things are coming.  If dates need to be adjusted then explain that and adjust them, but for me at least, having no dates is worse.

Stef - Yesterday at 4:36 PM
sorry if you feel that way, but we won't commit to schedules
at least not right now

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:41 PM
I think that's a mistake.  Again I'm not asking for commitments, but forecasts.  It's disappointing to hear that you know there are issues and features, but not provide even rough guidance (aside from sometime in 2017) for stuff that again perhaps mistakenly people thought would be there at launch.  That's what I mean about controlling the message.  I think a lot of frustrations expressed can be countered with well placed dialogue.  Absence of that always causes the crazies (like me) to assume the worst.  Ultimately though it's your company and that's just my opinion, but it's one that I've expressed to many companies.  Take 7 Wonders for example that's been in beta almost 2 years with no communication.  Or Nancy Drew who has had their latest game in development with almost no communication for 2 years.  In both of those cases you have loyal people literally switching to trash talking.  The more information you provide the more you placate people like me.  Knowing that you are currently working on x and forecast it to be ready by y.  Then knowing you hit roadblock z and have to shift the forecast to a tells me that you care about me as a customer.  Silence does the opposite.  Anyhow, thanks for listening and responding.  I do appreciate the hard work you are doing.
func_door - Yesterday at 4:45 PM
there's a balance to be made in placating people with communication and communicating things that may not end up being accurate

Stef - Yesterday at 4:45 PM
but... we're not silent at all
currently we're working on building a rating system, and providing a way for people to look at old logs
we've also been quite descriptive of the progress made the first 20 days of this year
it's just... I enjoy making new stuff a lot more then talking about why/what/when is coming
and especially why what isn't there yet
you're just turning 20 days into 2 years now... that seems a bit premature

Philip - Yesterday at 4:47 PM
" The more information you provide the more you placate people like me. Knowing that you are currently working on x and forecast it to be ready by y. Then knowing you hit roadblock z and have to shift the forecast to a tells me that you care about me as a customer."

My take: That is a lot of work. And the time we spend doing that is time we can't spend coding. In the end it's far better to promise little and deliver a lot than the other way around.
Stef - Yesterday at 4:47 PM
very possibly your expectations of what would be finished at launch would have been very realistic if most of the money that users spend on Dominion in the past years would have ended up with us. But alack, it did not.

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Except that in my mind what was promised at launch wasn't delivered and that does translate into more than just 20 days.  Since what I was expecting at launch wasn't there I then forecast that out to your list of priorities and have to wonder if you'll even get those done in 2017.  This is my point.  Without information people like me fill there head based on prior experience.  It's not uncommon for software companies to miss deadlines (by a lot).... but whenever those misses are communicated they are impacted by negative press and thoughts a lot less.  You seem to have a pretty loyal following I wouldn't be surprised if some of them wouldn't be willing to help you communicate more.
Again I realize that perhaps my expectations of the launch were completely unrealistic, but there was nothing obvious that helped me frame them better.  Managing people's expectations helps manage frustrations and complaints.  That's what communication is all about.  Yes, it's a pain and takes away from what you really want to do, but that's what differentiates good companies from great companies.  They control their message.  Anyhow.... I'm probably not changing any minds here so again appreciate you listening and responding.  Keep up the hard work!

Stef - Yesterday at 4:55 PM
I think the best thing we can do is just show progress
if we manage that, people will assume progress will continue
and rightfully so
that would beat any amount of promisses & ETAs

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 4:57 PM
AGain I disagree.  The progress you've made in the last 20 days isn't insignificant, but I haven't seen anything of substance (no offense meant.... bugs are exceptionally time consuming).  Forecasts help frame expectations.  Right now you have no frame for people to judge against except the initial launch.... but here I am circling back to my original expectations blah blah blah..... :smiley:

Stef - Yesterday at 4:59 PM
Let's just both hope you'll be positively surprised 3 months from now

JunkDealer - Yesterday at 5:01 PM
I'm hoping so too. :smiley:
Best of luck!


I'm going to put  on my old codger hat here and say that resigning without asking is just rude.

Imagine you're playing a game in real life and the person doesn't say anything, but just stacks up his cards into a pile, pushes them into the middle and walks away or worse gets up from the table without saying anything and leaves?  These are the equivalent to quitting and resigning without asking first.  It's amazing to me that this kind of etiquette isn't respected.  I will never turn down a request to resign.  I might ask why they want to resign first, but if it's a clear loss I completely understand it.  However, I will not understand someone who can't take the common courtesy to let the other person know what's going on.

I see this as a systemic problem with our online presence.  People just don't take the time to be polite.  It only takes half a minute to do and prevents people from getting the wrong impression.  As a previous user said put yourself in the other person's shoes.... If you just resign and walk away what impression are you leaving that person?  Be polite.  Say hello to the person you're playing with.  Wish them luck.  Tell them it was fun or a good game.  It's only a few keystrokes, but certainly makes the world more polite and human.

hf!
gg!

Old codger hat removed.

I'd be curious to hear from people who feel that a global chat is worthwhile.  I too am in the boat of not really caring/finding personal value in it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't valuable to other people.  Clearly Felendis feels that there is value there.  I have to admit with MF if I had a question or wanted to see what was going on I first turned to the global chat and if I didn't see anything there that was helpful then would turn to the forums.  Consider it immediate feedback vs delayed feedback I guess.

Why not a shared list between friends?  As long as you trust each other's judgement that would mean as soon as one of you found a troll the others wouldn't have to suffer through it.  Trust is the key word here in that if they just didn't like someone and blocked them you wouldn't be playing them either.  Shared lists have usage like this in many other environments.  My phone, for example, uses one to block telemarketers.

I'm not in favor of sharing lists automatically.

What do you mean by sharing lists automatically?  If you're going to share a list and someone copies it statically you could still end up in the same scenario.  I'm referring to being able to essentially "include x user's list" in my own list.  When it gets updated so does mine.  Again this is a common practice of shared lists for blocking unwanted things.

Following chat on discord I undid the actions up until the Herald was played and then played a different card allowing me to finish the game.  I should also note that the Envoy was bought from the black market should that prove to be part of the issue (although I can't imagine why that would matter).

Good luck.

As subject states

Joining game #269242 on oregon.

Played a Herald that auto-played an Envoy and the game stopped with "Waiting on Lord Rattington"
Reloaded the browser (several times after recording the following) and reconnected and the logs look different.  It is no longer waiting on Lord Rat, but instead showing the following:

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<snip>
plays a Herald.
draws a Copper.
shuffles their deck.
reveals an Envoy.
plays an Envoy.
reveals a Village, a Bazaar and an Advisor.
discards a Bazaar.
puts a Village and an Advisor into their hand.

The tool bar shows me with 1 action 3 buys and 0 coins, but no action cards are playable, no cards are purchasable, the game just appears to be dead.

Let me know if you need more.  I won't start a new game in hopes that that may also help.

Auto sitting means people who join a table and walk away will be dead wait.  Why not launch the game when the creator is ready and anyone not ready become spectators.

Second this.  maybe also a switchable option to let your friends see your list.

Why not a shared list between friends?  As long as you trust each other's judgement that would mean as soon as one of you found a troll the others wouldn't have to suffer through it.  Trust is the key word here in that if they just didn't like someone and blocked them you wouldn't be playing them either.  Shared lists have usage like this in many other environments.  My phone, for example, uses one to block telemarketers.

There is currently no such functionality.

This doesn't fully answer their post.  Will this option be available in the future or has this been ruled out?