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Messages - Quori

#16
General Discussion / Re: Undo backlash
20 January 2021, 07:05:01 PM
Quote from: theWalrus on 20 January 2021, 04:41:47 PM
I can view you as a poor sport for doing so.

by this logic, I can view you as an idiot for rushing and wildly clicking like a petulant and impatient child.

Does this back and forth help anyone? Does this progress the online version of the game and develop a better community?
#17
General Discussion / Re: Undo backlash
20 January 2021, 04:25:07 PM
Ingix, I think the best solution assuming the developers want undos in the game is simply to make them always active and limited per game. 2 per player per match. no approval needed.

I do not like them, but I can get behind it if the devs feel it is absolutely necessary; it just needs guardrails in place. Additionally it is absolutely lazy and bad development to put the entirety of the process in the players hands. It absolves the developers of any blame or culpability to the ramifications of what transpires.

"Hey you denied it you have to deal with it" yeah but if you just made it mandatory then I dont have to be viewed as a "bad guy" and I can make a personal choice to play or not play if I do not like a feature of the game.

Having it in there is not the issue....allowing it to be controlled by the player is. 
#18
Thanks Ingix. I have been doing these very steps; but its extra effort on my part and I still am facing it regardless.

The best solution is for players to realize...ya know like an adult...that mistakes happen and denying an undo is not a sign of the other player is some bad ju-ju player. I dont have high hopes on that one.
#19
Quote from: Ingix on 14 January 2021, 02:10:51 PM
Yes, mistakes happen, that do not exist in real life, like a misclick. If you are annoyed by undos, just don't grant them, your opponent has to do something else in the 4 min time frame they have.

Yes, but I am now facing constant backlash and abusivess because I deny. The feature needs to be inherently forced on in the game (You get 1, 2, 3 undos per match) or a feature that can be toggled on/off prior to a match so the two players agree ahead of time.

Additionally...having played Dominion for far longer than any digital version existed....yes misclicks didn't exist, but mistakes always have! Realizing you bought the wrong card(s), trashed the wrong card, took some wrong action....has ALWAYS been part of the game. Maybe some folks have house rules about table top undos, but again not an official thing and never something my fellow players ever considered or agreed to in a game.
#20
General Discussion / Re: Undo backlash
20 January 2021, 02:33:21 AM
Again, this is opinion. Stating "refuse all undos are guilty of poor sportsmanship" is akin to saying "not saying bless you means you are rude". Yeah, no.

The actual game does not have undos. The first official iteration of the digital Dominion did not have them either. Its not a thing. This is a construct of the ShuffleIt that also was not in the original release either. It is not an actual rule....So not granting them is not indicative of bad sportsmanship and more than granting is indicative of good sportsmanship. Someone can grant undos but still be cheating, abusive, trolling, etc. They are not unilaterally connected.

Again....the player has the choice. If it is a CHOICE, then one should not be judged and treated poorly as a result of their choice.
#21
General Discussion / Re: Undo backlash
19 January 2021, 05:42:21 PM
Quote from: theWalrus on 18 January 2021, 07:58:32 PM
QuoteWhile there may be different opinions on the topic, ... or slow-played against is never acceptable.
ShuffleIT's official position on the issue of undos is clear; that they should be allowed when the player requesting the undo has not gained an unfair advantage (i.e., has not seen cards , etc...).

Please show me the official position on this?

It seems to me if there was an official "allow this" then I as the player would not have the choice to deny it.

Again....I have a choice here. And it doesn't make me a monster or deserving of criticism because I chose "no undos". Now if I denied yours and then requested one for myself...sure I am hypocritical and deserve to be treated accordingly. But if the mistake in question has no unfair advantage in correcting, then it also has no reasonable expectation of making a difference if moved past entirely. In fact, I would argue the skill involved in compensating for such mistakes is a testament to the player who knows the game and can adjust on the fly to such things.

The issue for me is simply this. You are assuming 1) all undo requests are fair 2) All undo requests are done in good faith and 3) assuming the reasoning for why an undo should be allowed.

It cant be "Well we allow them for misclicks" well what if they are saying its a misclick but wasn't? What if they simply changed their mind? You cannot determine the actual reason or validity of the action....therefore it shouldn't be allowed at all. Undos can be abused far too easily with certain cards. Do we allow undos with some decks and not others?

You're stating an opinion, not a fact with your comment and trying to pass it off as "But this is the will of the makers of the game". Its not.
#22
General Discussion / Undo backlash
18 January 2021, 06:24:18 PM
I am seriously getting sick of the backlash for not allowing an undo.

Yes, you misclicked...we all do from time to time. UNDO IS NOT A PART OF THE ACTUAL GAME. I vehemently feel the feature needs to be either removed entirely or be a preference setting for a user. Allow me to turn it off for my matches.

I am tired of being flamed, cursed at, deliberate slow play and trolling because I am telling someone to live with a mistake. That's called life, grow up.

#23
Quote from: mrfiat on 01 June 2020, 01:06:32 PM
I vote for eliminate auto undos entirely. 

this. I am tired of getting non stop undo requests. The actual game does not have undos as a rule. It doesn't happen in RL. Remove this feature entirely. Mistakes happen, its not the end of the world.