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Messages - Ingix

#3136
I'd like to remark that the level, as displayed in the game client, is kind of a strange beast. For example, when looking at http://dominion.lauxnet.com/leaderboard/?full=true at this moment, my level is 46.06 and on the same page it shows players with levels from 46.00 to 46.10. I guess most people would intuitively say that all those players have the same strength and the difference is negligible.

But if you look at the μ-value of those players (which represents the (unscaled) strength of the players as estimated by the ratings algorithm, see http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1679.msg5891 for details),  my μ-value is 0.06, but there are 3 μ-values above 1 and the lowest is -0.17 (all from players with levels between 46.00 and 46.10).

If we use the scaling factor of 7.5 as detailed in the above mentioned post, the difference between -0.17 and 1.31 (the highest value) in μ-value is actually 11.1 levels as expressed in the game client. Which is roughly 100 times more than the displayed range of 46.00 - 46.10 would suggest.

The reason is that the level is calculated not just from μ, but also from φ, an estimated accuracy of the estimate μ. Basically (and for details I again refer to the above mentioned post by Stef) the lesser number of games you have played, the higher the perceived inaccuracy φ. Conversely, when you have played many (hundreds) of games, your φ becomes small.

Since the level is calculated as 50 + 7.5 * (μ-2φ), it will show a player with μ=1.20 φ=0.86 (13 games played) as having the same level (46.06) as myself, with μ=0.06   φ=0.29   (79 played games).

The problem I see is that that person with μ=1.20 is *clearly* better than me. That the rating algorithm is more unsure of the exact strength of that person is clear, 13 games is not much to go by, but putting it on my level is (at least to me) obviously wrong.

The stated reason for using a scaled version of (μ-2φ) is (quoting from the above post)

Quote
Glicko2 claims it's 95% certain your actual skill is between (μ-2φ) and (μ+2φ), and suggests using (μ-2φ) for rating / leaderboard, so we're doing that.

I understand that if you have some entity that objectively exists and you want to estimate if some person meets a certain quality level for that entity you want to err on the side of caution. In that case using a 2.5% of error quantile is reasonable.

But while there is obviously a skill cascade involved with Dominion, I think that the concept of a 'pre-existing' numerical skill level that the Glicko2 rating is estimating is not valid. So I think that using (μ-2φ) is a bad band-aid that declares players of widely differing skills as "equal levels".
#3137
Support / Re: reconnecting at every end game
16 May 2017, 04:40:28 PM
While I did not have such problems while playing at home, when I recently started to play in some other environment, I got the same problem in (estimated) 80%-90% of cases. The game just doesn't continue once it should be over.

When Lord Rattington had the last turn, the screen  says we are waiting for him. When I had the last turn, I see the log logging my card draws during the draw phase, but it still says that I should buy cards, but no action is possible.
#3138
It seems that this is a very similar problem to the one reported here http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1808.0 In both cases the UI becomes unresponsive in the same way; the red "X" over the Estate-Fortress indicating that it has been selected for trashing is shown, then the user cannot do anything, probably as the trashing/"reviving" of the Estate-Fortress fails somehow.
#3139
It seems that game #3509401 is the one in question. If you play as Jamind and load the game at decision 199, you have now Sacrifice in hand as well as Estate-Fortress. If you play Sacrifice and choose to trash the Estate-Sacrifice, the game stops, just as Jamind described. If you reload (CTRL-R in my Firefox), the game says it is waiting for Ingix (that is me).

OTOH, if you load game #3615441 (me vs. Rattington) at the very end, I have just played Sacrifice and the game now wants to know what to trash. If you select the Estate-Fortress, the game correctly returns it to my hand, gives me the +2 Actions/+2 cards as well as the +2VP.

So it seems that something special is going on in game #3509401 that does not happen in game #3615441, though I have no idea what that could be. The previous turns don't have anything special going on.
#3140
Thanks Markus! When I use dominion.lauxnet.com, I *never* see any game number. That is until now, when I clicked on the games and it gave me the game number. Maybe that could be in-cooperated into the listing itself (by whoever runs that site (you Markus?), which I guess is someone reading this site as well), as there is no indication that the listings are interactive.

Added: I loaded that game and as Dwedit and Markus said, that strange behaviour (error) is there. It seems 'obvious' that the game somehow retained the Royal Carriage trigger from Dwedit's opponent's last turn, where she followed up the Royal Carriage with a Hamlet and where she did not recall the Royal Carriage to replay the Hamlet.

#3141
There must be some mixup, as that game (while including you) does not have any Royal Carriages or Hamlets. I guess finding the real game number is now impossible.
#3142
Card Bugs / Re: Possession and Haunted Castle
12 May 2017, 03:55:14 PM
Yes, that's right. From the game's perspective, it is the turn of the possessed player, you (possessor) are just the "puppet master" that pulls the strings. I know it does feels like it is your turn when you possess someone.
#3143
Yep, that is a problem that has been reported before, see http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1804 and http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1480.
#3144
Card Bugs / Re: Archive or Black Market Bug
10 May 2017, 07:21:07 PM
Thanks for reporting a new occurance of the bug, JoMa! You are right, both the second time you get a card from Archiv and the third (and last) time the card does not end up in your hand.

They seem to be completely gone from the deck: At decision 295 you have 31 cards in your deck (23 in draw pile, 5 in hand and the Archive with 2 cards under it). When I played a few turns, not doing anything, until the discard pile was empty again I end up with 29 cards. The 2 cards seem to be gone for good.
#3145
Yep, that's right and we agree on the probable root cause as well. See http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1480
#3146
General Discussion / Re: Sore losers
10 May 2017, 01:32:28 PM
I just formulated this in another thread about a similar topic, but it seems to be "the answer" to AdamH's response that reporting would be open to abuse: The game should, in the game log, keep track  (at least internally, not necessarily visible to the players) of the timing when players make decisions.

So just as it notices that you played a Copper, it attaches a time stamp to that decision in the game log. If you wait 4 min before playing the next Copper, this will be "on record". Then games (reported or otherwise) can later be examined (by hand or automatically) by the devs. This means that accusations of stalling are *verifyable*, instead of just being accusations.
#3147
Question/suggestion to the developers: Does the gaming log internally contain timing information? That means, can you verify that decision X was made at time Y and decision X+1 (by the same player) at time X+3min:59sec, or something similar? I think this would be necessary information to verify (probably automatically) that stalling accusations are in fact correct.
#3148
I just confirmed that buying an Estate while Estate is in play (Inheritanced Market Square) does not give you Collonade VP. In game #3435054 at decision 77 I have played an Estate/Market Square and 2 Copper this turn. If I now buy an Estate, the Colonode VP stays at 8, and I don't get any VP chips.

I agree that the ruling is a bit strange IMO, but it is otherwise implemented very well. If you inherit cards with Overpay, for example, this will be triggered when bying an estate.
#3149
Yeah, sorry, I totally missed that :-[
#3150
I *think* you should get Colonnade VP if you buy an Estate if you have an Estate *in play*. But I stress that I'm unclear on this and would like confirmation/counter opinions from others on this.

As tufftaeh explained, there is no "cross-gaining" for buying Estate while Market Square is in play. In your initial description it was unclear if "buying Estate while Estate was in play" was something that happened.