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Regarding what I wrote above:

My interpretation was wrong, because it would not allow Reactions to behave as expected. This means the rules for what "when you play" means are a bit more complex than I thought. In any case, it means the following:

I was wrong in my possible interpretation regarding Champion (before the new ruling) not triggering on its own playing. All "after" abilities (like Citadel) trigger after the played card is resolved, not before. So Champion needs to be "first" in order to not give you an extra Action when you play it.

The conclusion is that Champion happens "first" (and will apparently say that in new printings), while Sauna and Merchant still happen after.

So it adopted an "as long as triggers for an event haven't been handled completely and are over, new relevant trigger effects appearing will also trigger" approach . This leads to a Hireling double played by Ghost at start of turn actually giving you twice +1 card that same turn.

So that would mean the "For the rest of the game" ability appearing during Champion's playing is existing and relevant at the time 'normal' "When you play an Actions card" triggers are checked at the end of Champion's resolution.

Your explanation of new abilities triggering is accurate, but it's not relevant to what I was saying. My point was that Champion triggers right when you play an Action card (before you resolve the Action card) but would be resolved after resolving the Action card. This means that when you play it, its own "rest of the game" ability is not triggered. Please take a look at what I wrote again, and also check out the post I linked to in the Strategy Forum.

I can add that this interpretation is in line with how things work in Dominion. First of all, it's certain that an ability can have triggered without being resolved while other abilities are resolved in the meantime. (Talisman and Haggler in play, buy a card. Both trigger, but one is resolved first while the other waits.) Then we can extrapolate this to how abilites set up future effects: Play a Charm, it has a "when you play this" ability (happening right now) which says "the next time you buy a card", which is in the future. It's set up when you play the card, but it happens later.

Enchantress should also be interpreted this way: It triggers when you play an Action card, but is resolved when you would resolve the Action card's play ability. (Lantern and Ways work the same way.) Royal Carriage also triggers on playing an Action card, but is resolved after. I don't really see any other interpretation that makes much sense and is consistent (and I've been working on cataloging the timing in Dominion for a long time).

Ingix replied the following, which has not been moved from the other thread:

So to me Champion would also trigger when you play an Action card, but give you +1 Action after you resolve the played card. (Sauna and Merchant would work the same way.) I said the same thing here. So no matter if the +1 Action happened "first" or "after", it would not trigger on its own playing. (But note that it does make a difference when playing a Storyteller that plays a Diadem, and when playing a Snowy Village.)

But I think it is established that because Reaction cards exist that are hidden in a player's hand, the game cannot go by the "an effect must have been present at the time of the event in order to trigger" paradigm, because no other player can verify if a given Reaction card was already present in a player's hand at trigger time (Secret Chamber finding Moat example).

So it adopted an "as long as triggers for an event haven't been handled completely and are over, new relevant trigger effects appearing will also trigger" approach . This leads to a Hireling double played by Ghost at start of turn actually giving you twice +1 card that same turn.

So that would mean the "For the rest of the game" ability appearing during Champion's playing is existing and relevant at the time 'normal' "When you play an Actions card" triggers are checked at the end of Champion's resolution.

AFAIK, Sauna and Merchant are still 'normal' effects that happen after the Silver on-play effect is over.

In my understanding, if Champion was also a normal effect that happens after the playing of an Action card, it would give +2 Actions in aggregate for its own playing (one explicite, one as part of the "For the rest of the game ..." ability.

Before Menagerie, the difference mattered only for Diadem, now it also matters for Snowy Village.

Well, it depends on how you interpret the timing of "when you play a card" and stuff that happens before you resolve it (like Reactions) and stuff that happens after you resolve it (like Citadel). It makes the most sense that they all trigger when you actually play it, before you resolve it. Otherwise it gets kind of ugly to define and describe. Citadel triggers when "you play an Action card", and does something "after", meaning after you resolve the card.

So to me Champion would also trigger when you play an Action card, but give you +1 Action after you resolve the played card. (Sauna and Merchant would work the same way.) I said the same thing here. So no matter if the +1 Action happened "first" or "after", it would not trigger on its own playing. (But note that it does make a difference when playing a Storyteller that plays a Diadem, and when playing a Snowy Village.)

[+$1]

That's because in addition to your opponent's Reaction cards, some of your own cards/tokens can cause a "first" effect to happen: The +$1, +1 Buy and +1 Action tokens from Adventures, and Champion from the Page traveller line.

Donald's latest ruling is that Champion's +1 Action happens after resolving the card, not before.

No, it isn't any more. Champion's effect is a first effect. This was discussed intesively in preparation for the set's programming, including Donald X.

Oh. Well, his latest public ruling was that it happens after (having originally ruled that it happens before). But I'll take your word for it of course, so that makes your announcement here the new official ruling, I guess. So then can you tell me if the ruling has also changed for Sauna and Merchant? Donald's latest known ruling was that these (along with Champion) don't "secretly" say first. But Champion does now secretly say it, so I guess these could too.

The Mint bugs are still not in the bug list...

[+$1]

That's because in addition to your opponent's Reaction cards, some of your own cards/tokens can cause a "first" effect to happen: The +$1, +1 Buy and +1 Action tokens from Adventures, and Champion from the Page traveller line.

Donald's latest ruling is that Champion's +1 Action happens after resolving the card, not before.

Also note that gaining from Kiln happens before you decide on using the Way. This could even mean that you play the gained copy via Innovation before deciding. Urchin also happens before, so you could play Mercenary via Innovation before deciding. I assume you've taken all that into account.

I also reported some bugs after the intial post.

The first one was fixed.

The second one is not fixed. This is Mint/Innovation. I tried now, game 30743535, turn 9. Here I actually had 3 when-buy abilities: Mint, Haggler and Charm. I don't get to choose Mint before any of the others, which is also a bug. The important thing is the gaining of Crown (from Charm). The Crown is played via Innovation. In the end Mint resolves, but the Crown is not trashed. Crown should be trashed. And this is why you should be able to resolve Mint first.

The third post reports of interactions that work, although it's displayed in the wrong place in the log.

I'll think about how to best incorporate this in the known cards bug list.

Any reason these bugs haven't been added to the list? Not all of them are Innovation related (if that has anything to do with it). Not all of them are BoM related either. And most of them haven't been fixed.

the people on this thread who oddly enough said I have a good point while being against my point (says a lot).

I was the only one who said that you have a good point, but I did not say I was against it. I did say that I think there are many features and fixes that we have been waiting for from the start, that are more important than optional variants. (I also said that Donald would almost certainly not approve of this variant.)

There has been so much written about this stuff (before people starting giving up that it ever would be implementet), so I suggest you start looking at some of the old feature requests. There are a lot of actions and events that are not animated, you only understand what the hell happened by checking the log. (Your idea about coloring trashed cards in the log is just a remedy which would not be needed if animations were fully implemented.) And clicking in the log is a horrible idea. The log should be for information only, like a... "log". These things do not kill the experience for experienced players, but they are very serious when it comes to new players. Another important thing missing is the option to search for and retrieve text logs without starting a new game against a bot.

Half the items you crossed out are not done.

Card animations - still not complete and I don't think it has been worked on since the list was made in 2017
Expanding on friend list - not sure what this refers to, but it doesn't seem like much has changed since 2017
Create an IOS and Android app - I don't think these exist, do they?
Adding features for Kingdom selection, e.g. to help new players learn cards gradually - Is this done?
Adding tournament support - not done in the client, which is the point

Then there are many important things that many of us have been asking for from the start, but are not on that list. Like not having to use the log to play the game(!).

What kind of features are missing?

Almost all of these are still missing: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=512.0
Add to that all the bugs that aren't fixed.

I think you make very good points, but I doubt you'll get anybody to agree with you here. Most people are too invested in the way it works now to consider that the game could be improved in any way. Even if you're just talking about giving more options, most people don't want to hear it. This is also because most people who reply here are fairly high-level players who have learned to play the game as it is and take advantage of the exact thing you're describing.

But in any case, there are so many features missing from the implementation, that Stef for sure will not include this option any time soon (and rightly so, because many things are more important). And furthermore, I highly doubt Donald would agree to significant variants such is this.

Another solution would be to make cards more likely to appear in a kingdom if you haven't played with them in a while. So if card X is banned by a lot of players, but you're not banning it and your current opponent isn't either, it would be more likely to make it into the kingdom.

This is a great solution. Depending in the sophistication of the code, it would totally eliminate the problem people are talking about in this thread. And I don't think the code needs to be very advanced to reduce the problem to the level that people mostly don't notice it.