So this just happened!!!!

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A player named Freaky joined, and then another player crude joined. So freaky lost and this was the parting message. Attaching the snapshot. Is it like this player uses multiple accounts to watch opponent hands? Playing in a league I understand showing ur hand, but in a regular rated game, is it mandatory etiquette to show your hand?

Joining game #33143550 on frankfurt.
Freaky:  Why are you hiding your hand again?
Freaky:  Back to blacklist it is
jackDozen:  sory?

PS: The other player crude has to be him correct? Else how can he know I am hiding my hand.


Freaky and crude are two "well known" players (that means they are very active in the discord community) and so it seems unlikely that they are the same person. Those players usually have alts (second or further accounts), but usually they are identifiable like "other X" or a number (if you ever see Ingix2, for example, that's also me).

Freaky is very opinionated, not shy to express them and also not shy to act on them. One of their opinions is that players should not hide their hands. It's very probable that crude and Freaky where in discord contact, so they got the hand-hiding info from crude.

As I said and as you experienced, Freaky will call you out for what they think you did wrong, and act upon it (put you on their ban list).


Why is hiding ones hand bad? Onto the Blacklist Freaky!


Quote from: SkyHard on 29 November 2019, 02:58:41 PM
Why is hiding ones hand bad? Onto the Blacklist Freaky!

I guess it is bad because they cannot see what your hand looks like (through alt account or discord-friend support) and then fume out when lose to low rating player. That would be the best guess and possible explanation  :) Otherwise it is quite a silly thing to throw a fit about.


Well, the general attitude among many top players (of which Freaky is one) is that spectating in Dominion Online is an important part of the experience. You can watch other (probably better) players and see what they do.

It's much better to understand what they do when you actually see their hand, so you see the choices they make (say between 2 terminals when they only have 1 Action left).

Of course, this opens the door for potential fraud by allowing your opponent to see your hand. The general consensus seems to be that this doesn't happen (or rarely happens). Of course, there is no way to know for sure.

So, the resentment is (at least according to my understanding) that because you hide your hand, you deminish the spectator experience.


Freaky blacklists hand hiders because it makes the experience of spectating the match much less fun, and many people spectate his matches because he's #1 on the leaderboard. I frequently spec him, and tell him on discord if people hide hand.

I appreciate the insinuation that I'm a Freaky alt, but no :winemerchant:.


Look, I don't want to start/fuel a fight here, because I think Freaky and Crude are both positive members of the community.

But I do think the whole crusade against hand-hiding is extremely poor optics when combined with the fact that certain players are well-known to (using alts) play collaboratively on ladder using voice chat, with the second person as a spectator.  This really should stop in my opinion (even though I don't mind playing against these collaborative accounts myself), unless you want to get permission from everyone you play against, many of whom take the ladder very seriously.


As someone who spectated numerous games of mine and has been at tables with me expressing that I dislike hand hiding and me having asked you before to unhide your hand this seems quite frankly ridiculous.
Yes I dislike hand hiding because I too like spectating games, just like you, so it shouldn't be too hard to see that it annoys people when they can't properly follow the game they are watching and while the blacklist feature can become a reporting tool if many people blacklist the same person it mostly is just a personal preference adaption to the matchmaking tool and I use it as such to ensure my spectators can fully enjoy the games they are spectating and I stand by that policy and by that token 'crude' informed me on discord of you hiding your hand as I ask my spectators to do so.


Quote from: Freaky on 01 December 2019, 12:29:32 AM
As someone who spectated numerous games of mine and has been at tables with me expressing that I dislike hand hiding and me having asked you before to unhide your hand this seems quite frankly ridiculous.

I am gonna assume here that you are not talking about me because I have no idea about your likes/dislikes. May be you were referring to Lemonspawn's comment?
Regarding hand hiding, I appreciate all the top players who have graciously agreed to open up thr hands for spectators. I would consider myself an average player at best and watching these games has been a fantastic experience. I learnt a lot from the games that I have spectated (if thats a word). But when I joined Dominion I didnt even know that this spectating can be such an enriching experience. I initially hid my hand because I didnt want anyone to see how I am playing. Now that I think about it, it is a poor attitude and I am fine with keeping my hands open. But I absolutely do not agree to give permission to discuss hand strategies while we are in middle of the game (rated or otherwise), and hoping that players will follow the basic etiquette.
Freaky, the implication regarding multiple accounts (crude) was because of your abrupt blow out with that parting message, as it was not very clear to me. Not everyone has been on discord or online dominion for months/years. Some people are very new and still learning the basics.


Thanks to all commentors in this thread that gave thoughtful explanations and the reasoning behind their behavior and turned this into a thread that builds understanding of players' behavior. In this day and age on the internet it seems like the execption rather than the norm!