Dominion: Nocturne

[Moat_Man]

Today Jay from Rio Grande announced another expansion for Dominion called Nocturne. It's release date is tentatively October 18th, 2017. Are there plans to implement Nocturne into Dominion Online and if so, how long after the physical release can we expect to see it implemented online?

Thanks.

[Stef]

Today Jay from Rio Grande announced another expansion for Dominion called Nocturne. It's release date is tentatively October 18th, 2017. Are there plans to implement Nocturne into Dominion Online and if so, how long after the physical release can we expect to see it implemented online?

Thanks.

Yes we will certainly have Nocturne online, ASAP.

Currently working on "disconnect issues", I will start implementing Nocturne next week.

[refried]

Will it be part of an existing subscription level?

[jsh]

Will it be part of an existing subscription level?

Like Empires did for MakingFun account rollovers, Nocturne will increase the cost of the Gold subscription, so current Gold subscribers will need to add it on.

[jeebus]

As some of us have said before, it would be much better to fix the current bugs before starting to implement new cards. I'm not necessarily talking about all bugs; there are probably some that are very rare and difficult to pin down. But the vast majority of the bugs should be fixed. Many of them have been present since launch, and adding new cards first that will inevitably introduce new bugs doesn't seem like a good idea. There's also missing functionality that should be implemented first, like being able to view full logs of past games, deck contents at end of game, and missing info in the running game log. There are also several problematic interface issues (that you could count as bugs).

[kieranmillar]

If I recall correctly, I remember reading somewhere before the launch of this online client either Donald or Stef saying that part of the contract was that any new expansion needs to be rolled out at the same time as the physical release.

So implementing the new expansion likely takes priority over all else.

[dane]

If my experience is anything to by - nearly 300 games of which only one was affected by a bug - I suspect most players would prefer to see Nocturne implemented before the remaining bugs are fixed.  I suspect that most of the remaining bugs are difficult to track down because they are not obviously related to the implementation of a particular card.  In particular I suspect that it's significant that several bug reports relate to games that cannot be reloaded because of an internal error.

[Stef]

If I recall correctly, I remember reading somewhere before the launch of this online client either Donald or Stef saying that part of the contract was that any new expansion needs to be rolled out at the same time as the physical release.

So implementing the new expansion likely takes priority over all else.

You're not exactly spot on but in the right direction. Regardless of the contract both Donald and I are eventually driven by what the majority of players want, and they tend to value new cards over fixing obscure bugs.

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of fixing the interface here, it's just that new sets are generally very much appreciated by the community.

[Reinder]

I completely agree with Stef here. Yes, there are still a lot of things to improve but I'd take new cards over improving any time of the day. Besides my personal preference, I guess there is also the economics of having something new to sell.

[Donald X.]

You're not exactly spot on but in the right direction. Regardless of the contract both Donald and I are eventually driven by what the majority of players want, and they tend to value new cards over fixing obscure bugs.

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of fixing the interface here, it's just that new sets are generally very much appreciated by the community.

I agree. There are very important other things, and yet the new expansion is even more important.

[jeebus]

One thing is more or less obscure bugs (of which there seems to be quite a few). Another thing is basic stuff like player tokens not being displayed and the after-game log having wrong information. I don't even feel like starting to list all the other equally important stuff, it's been done before, but I guess I should, but I actually don't have time right now. Anyway, it's very strange to me that people would rather have new cards than basic flaws fixed. You can always play with the new cards by actually buying the physical set and playing.

[jsh]

One thing is more or less obscure bugs (of which there seems to be quite a few). Another thing is basic stuff like player tokens not being displayed and the after-game log having wrong information. I don't even feel like starting to list all the other equally important stuff, it's been done before, but I guess I should, but I actually don't have time right now. Anyway, it's very strange to me that people would rather have new cards than basic flaws fixed. You can always play with the new cards by actually buying the physical set and playing.

I think you're in a very small minority on this one.

[JW]

One thing is more or less obscure bugs (of which there seems to be quite a few). Another thing is basic stuff like player tokens not being displayed and the after-game log having wrong information. I don't even feel like starting to list all the other equally important stuff, it's been done before, but I guess I should, but I actually don't have time right now. Anyway, it's very strange to me that people would rather have new cards than basic flaws fixed. You can always play with the new cards by actually buying the physical set and playing.

I think you're in a very small minority on this one.

Of the Dominion players who have played 500 or more games, people might care more about a new set. But for people who aren't that into Dominion, but could be, having another set isn't a big deal.  Having another set makes playing all cards games even more of a hurdle for new players than it already is, and Dominion games are plenty interesting these days without a new set.  Having a better interface would help people get into Dominion in the first place. 

I find it strange that ShuffleIT would prioritize having lots of volunteers help moderate a tournament (for the most serious players) over essential user information like an official FAQ.  The closest we have is an unofficial guide last updated in March.  http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1100.msg3053#msg3053 There's no sign of a tutorial that teaches people to play Dominion on the horizon, and offline play seems even further away.  The priorities of the existing customer base that already loves competitive Dominion seem to be taken too seriously compared to the potential customers. I'm glad for me that Nocturne is first, and I don't need a FAQ, but it's been over seven months and I still won't recommend the site to people who are new to Dominion because it's not a good enough experience, and I don't want it to drive them away.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I find it strange that ShuffleIT would prioritize having lots of volunteers help moderate a tournament (for the most serious players) over essential user information like an official FAQ.

I find it strange to assume the volunteer efforts reflect the priorities of ShuffleIT, rather than, you know, the priorities of the volunteers. Who presumably decided to organize a tournament on their own and then asked Stef for permission to host it on these forums rather than the other places. I guess he could have said "No, not until you write up a FAQ for me".

Anyway, it happens that some people are working on an updated FAQ as well.

[Donald X.]

Of the Dominion players who have played 500 or more games, people might care more about a new set. But for people who aren't that into Dominion, but could be, having another set isn't a big deal.  Having another set makes playing all cards games even more of a hurdle for new players than it already is, and Dominion games are plenty interesting these days without a new set.  Having a better interface would help people get into Dominion in the first place. 

Delaying the new set isn't going to get a new-players-ready version done meaningfully faster. A new set is an especially easy task, as has been demonstrated in the past here. Aside from occasional tricky cards like Inheritance, or cards that require unique interface stuff like Stash, it's all trivial. At the same time the new set is a significant draw for not-new-to-Dominion players.

It's moot as it's contractual. MF took forever to get Adventures up. So RGG has it in the contract that the expansions have to go up in a timely manner. This wasn't RGG saying "because that's more important than the user interface" or any such thing. It was RGG saying "man it sucked when the expansions weren't going up in a timely manner; let's make sure that doesn't happen." And since that's the contract, the expansions will go up in a timely manner.

Having an additional set is not a meaningful hurdle-increase for new players. They are seeing 10 new cards each game for a while any which way, unless of course they play all base set against a bot or fellow new player or what have you.

I find it strange that ShuffleIT would prioritize having lots of volunteers help moderate a tournament (for the most serious players) over essential user information like an official FAQ.

These volunteers you speak of, they are volunteering. The nature of this is that they do things they feel like doing. It should be no surprise that volunteers who are enfranchised players like doing things that enfranchised players like having done. It's not Shuffle iT prioritizing anything.